Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    30mi/day commuter
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    793
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    front derailer with IGH

    is it possible to use a front deraileur with an IGH? If you had 2-3 chain rings up front the chain angles very little but you use those thick single speed chains with an IGH can it handle this amount of angle? or is that a bad idea?

  2. #2
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chico1st View Post
    is it possible to use a front deraileur with an IGH? If you had 2-3 chain rings up front the chain angles very little but you use those thick single speed chains with an IGH can it handle this amount of angle? or is that a bad idea?
    2 will probably be max.

    You'll need some sort of chain tensioner/derailleur to take up the slack as you shift through the gears. I'm not sure if you can make the chainline work or not. You will most definitley not be able to use 1/8 chain. At any rate, a 3/32 chain will handle crosschaining better than a 1/8. It was designed to.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  3. #3
    perpetually frazzled mickey85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Linton, IN
    My Bikes
    1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer
    Posts
    2,476
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you got a half-step setup (I've got one that's 52/47 for instance), you could probably get away with just using super long dropouts. Might not be the safest thing...Once you go with a tensioner or a derailer that has been fixed in place, you kinda lose most of the benefits of going with an IGH - namely nothing to get gunked up and a clean chain line.
    1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
    1967 Phillips Sports
    1974 Peugeot UO-8 fixed gear
    1978 Raleigh Super Course
    1981 Schwinn LeTour
    1984 Nishiki Riviera GT
    1987 Nishiki Modulus
    1988 Fuji Palisade
    1994 Univega Activa Trail (converted to drops)


    Master of the low end garbajj!

  4. #4
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey85 View Post
    If you got a half-step setup (I've got one that's 52/47 for instance), you could probably get away with just using super long dropouts. Might not be the safest thing...Once you go with a tensioner or a derailer that has been fixed in place, you kinda lose most of the benefits of going with an IGH - namely nothing to get gunked up and a clean chain line.
    That won't work anyways. The chain tension will be ridiculously loose in one combo. Enough to drop chains.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  5. #5
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    7,368
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It would be interesting to design an adjunct to an IGH that can also pick up the chain-slack. But I don't see it rolling down the street for awhile. Thanks for the concept.
    Last edited by Panthers007; 01-04-10 at 11:04 PM. Reason: need new kb
    Quote Originally Posted by Cateye View Post
    Only panthers007 is stupid enough to believe that this is a good idea.

  6. #6
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Chicago NW 'burbs
    Posts
    2,480
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Other folks have done it. The issue is that if you choose an Nexus/Alfine, the gear steps are not consistant (the difference between 1-2 gear is much less than the difference between 5-6 gear). The set-up won't be a half-step, there will be lots of overlap. All you'll do is extend the range 2-3 more gears. If you choose an SRAM im9 hub, the steps are consistant and you can get a wider range with less overlap. No issues on the chainslack, just use a rear dearaillieur...Which kinda defeats the purpose of an IGH....

  7. #7
    Mister Bleak! mconlonx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,687
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Shimano makes a double-pulley Alfine chain tensioner for applications with front shifting and there are other tensioner designs out there that would work. A double would make sense, but check with hub mfg regarding minimum ratio before planning on a triple chainring setup--a super-small chainring might overtorque an IGH hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Bottom line: everyone here should listen to Mconlonx... he has it figured out and the rest of you, well, don't.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Eastern Iowa
    My Bikes
    surly cross check
    Posts
    502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    you should try an internal geared crank, I am not terribly familiar with them but I have seen them on a few mountain bikes so I know they exist

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    93
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had double setup last year.
    Shimano Tiagra Compact 50-34 and Shimano tensioner, works fine .

  10. #10
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    11,840
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cyclo used to make a 3-speed cluster and derailleur for use on Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hubs to give 9 speeds in total. The system used 1/8" chain so I suspect you could run 3 chainrings and a front derailleur with 1/8" chain as well. But you would need some kind of chain tensioner on the back.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    angus scotland
    My Bikes
    Grifter BSA 20
    Posts
    600
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I built a few bikes that had igh and mechs.

    Lil Blue bike was a kids MTB that I fitted 20" 3 speed Sturmey Archer wheels too. I fitted an old Shimano 3 speed 18t cog to it. As these are pressed steel and can use a narrow chain.
    But needed a smaller cog. I had racer 42/52 cranks on it. Could spin out the gears too easily.


    Last edited by griftereck; 01-05-10 at 08:54 AM.

  12. #12
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Camp Hill, PA
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here check my signature.
    Posts
    18,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I do not have alot of miles on my IGH, but it seems that a triple is a bit overkill as the 28T on mine is usless. atleast here in rather flat So Jersey. I did switch toa sort of halfster with 42/58. I had the triple carnks and wanted to use it plus the vertical dropouts meant I needed a tensioner anyway
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  13. #13
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    LOTS of ways to go in order to extend the overall gear range of an IGH from using the SRAM Dual Drive to multiple front chain rings with a chain tensioner or rear derailleur adjusted to act strictly as a chain tensioner. Using thin Shimano or SRAM dished IGH rear cogs allows fitting of two cogs to most Sturmey Archer hubs. With careful choice of cog sizes and chain length the chain tension adjustment of most horizontal dropouts should be enough to allow proper chain tensioning with the chain on either sprocket. No changing of chain position possible while riding but a quick stop allows readjusting to the range wanted.

    Almost all have the disadvantage of losing the simplicity of appearance and single chainline that the IGH with single sprockets front and rear provide. They also make fitting a chain guard much more difficult. The one exception is the Schlumpf dual drive front crankset or something similar. Expensive solution though. I personally favor choosing a IGH that provides the overall gear range needed to start with. If you need a wide range the Rohloff has a 526% range, the NuVinci has a 350% overall range and the SRAM iM9 has a 340% range.

    As already mentioned too, trying to fit too low an input ratio for the hub via fitting a too small inner chainring risks over torquing the IGH unit which risks possible failure. Rohloff, NuVinci and SRAM all list recommended minimum input ratios for their hubs and Sturmey Archer used to prior to the Sunrace take over.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  14. #14
    cyclepath daredevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "The Last Best Place"
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek Pilot 5.0, 2001 Specialized Sirrus Pro, Kona Lava Dome, Raleigh hardtail converted to commuter, 87 Takara steel road bike, 2008 Trek Soho
    Posts
    3,552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Without music, life would be a mistake."
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #15
    tcs
    tcs is offline
    Palmer tcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Parts unknown
    Posts
    4,123
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    LOL! Here's how to half-step a Shimano 8:

    It can't be done with two chainwheels --- but it can with three.

    Example: let's use - arbitrarily - a 700x32 and a 23T cog. Our three chainwheels could then be a 42T, 45T and 47T.

    Gear progression would be:
    1st ratio, 42/23 = 26"
    1st ratio, 47/23 = 29"
    2nd ratio, 42/23 = 32"
    2nd ratio, 45/23 = 34"
    3rd ratio, 42/23 = 37"
    3rd ratio, 45/23 = 39.5"
    4th ratio, 42/23 = 42"
    4th ratio, 45/23 = 45"
    5th ratio, 42/23 = 49"
    5th ratio, 47/23 = 55"
    6th ratio, 42/23 = 60"
    6th ratio, 45/23 = 64.5"
    7th ratio, 42/23 = 70"
    7th ratio, 45/23 = 75"
    8th ratio, 42/23 = 79"
    8th ratio, 45/23 = 85"

    tcs
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  16. #16
    cyclepath daredevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    "The Last Best Place"
    My Bikes
    2005 Trek Pilot 5.0, 2001 Specialized Sirrus Pro, Kona Lava Dome, Raleigh hardtail converted to commuter, 87 Takara steel road bike, 2008 Trek Soho
    Posts
    3,552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^^^is that describing anything similar to that two ringed Jamis mentioned in post #14?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Without music, life would be a mistake."
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche

  17. #17
    Mister Bleak! mconlonx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4,687
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Jamis, assume 18t rear sprocket. 700x32 tires. 48/34 crank.

    26.9 34/18 1st
    32.8 34/18 2nd
    37.9 48/18 1st
    38.1 34/18 3rd
    43.4 34/18 4th
    46.4 48/18 2nd
    51.0 34/18 5th
    53.9 48/18 3rd
    61.3 48/18 4th
    62.4 34/18 6th
    72.0 48/18 5th
    72.4 34/18 7th
    82.4 34/18 8th
    88.1 48/18 6th
    102.2 48/18 7th
    116.3 48/18 8th

    Rather than a half step, there are a couple ratios on there, right in the meat of where I'm usually at, that are pretty close together. Currently, I'm running 44/18 on a nexus hub, which is just about perfect for my slightly hilly commute--if I lived in real hill country or mountains, I'd be looking for a lower gear. As it is, I'm thinking of a double chainring setup, but it would be more like 48/38 or some thing that would stagger the middle of the range a bit more evenly. Even so, I think I'd rarely be shifting the front, considering it more a hi/lo range, set it and forget it kinda thing, rather than something to be used for hitting half steps along the regular range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    Bottom line: everyone here should listen to Mconlonx... he has it figured out and the rest of you, well, don't.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  18. #18
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Grid Reference, SK
    My Bikes
    I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
    Posts
    3,769
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A couple of months ago I retrofitted an Alfine hub to my touring bike and used the Alfine chain tensioner... the Shimano instructions actually give guidelines for running multiple chainrings and how to size the chain, etc.

    Also, the Alfine chain tensioner did not work well with the 1/8" chain - the chain was lightly rubbing on the sides of the tensioner, and I lost the option of using the (still installed) 28 and 46 tooth rings. I have run the bike several times with the other rings, but I just swap it over by hand as I removed the front derailleur and shifter when I installed the Alfine hub.

  19. #19
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Chicago NW 'burbs
    Posts
    2,480
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
    ... the Alfine chain tensioner did not work well with the 1/8" chain - the chain was lightly rubbing on the sides of the tensioner....
    Why use an 1/8" chain? All the rear cogs are available in 3/32, the tensioner and chainrings are made for 3/32.

  20. #20
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Grid Reference, SK
    My Bikes
    I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
    Posts
    3,769
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Why use an 1/8" chain? All the rear cogs are available in 3/32, the tensioner and chainrings are made for 3/32.
    I thought I was being clever. I have since installed a 3/32" chain and all is right with the universe.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •