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  1. #1
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    TA Axix BB, is it JIS or ISO?!!!!

    I Googled and googled. Shot TA an e-mail. No reply. Most online shops qualify it as a JIS taper, but quite a few sources claim it is ISO.

    I want to use this BB for a Weight weenie project and I am not ready to splurge on a Phil.

    I test fitted my crank with a 113mm Kinex JIS BB and chainline is perfect. So now I want the weight savings and go for the TA. But no one seems to know for sure! This is killing me! If it turns out to be ISO, The crankset will definately hit the BB drive side cup.

    So, does anyone have absolute proof that this BB uses a JIS taper?

    I would be very grateful!
    You fixed my flat tire and now my light doesn't work, so...

  2. #2
    cab horn
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    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

    All the resources you need are online. Just what is the weight of the TA bb that makes you want to run a non cart bb? BB adds weight in one of the most non essential areas of the bike. It lowers center of gravity.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  3. #3
    2_i
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    I ride TA Axix and it is ISO.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html

    All the resources you need are online. Just what is the weight of the TA bb that makes you want to run a non cart bb? BB adds weight in one of the most non essential areas of the bike. It lowers center of gravity.

    Thank you. Did read that one. It clearly states that TA is ISO, but I also found an article saying that TA switched from ISO to JIS at some point, but didn't bother to tell anyone.

    Wiggle cycles in the UK has it listed as JIS, yet I e-mailed Spa cycles (also Uk) and they say the ones they have in stock are ISO.

    Here's the deal. I am anything but a weight weenie normally. I find a stiff frame and bulletproof wheels for example much more important as I generally am a masher and can put out a fair amount of watts in a sprint, but my current project evolved from being yet another fixed gear project into a gram counting extravaganza.

    It started when I built myself a set of lightweight track wheels. They came in at 1322 grammes as opposed to 2200 grammes for the Phil Wood/Deep V combo I was riding at the time. Then I upgraded to a Wabi cycles Lightning frameset from a generic alu track frame. I alo wanted road geometry and found that in the Wabi. Shaved off more than a pound in the process.

    So now I am going all the way and aiming for a 13 pound fixed gear with a front brake, bell and water bottle cage. And doing it without spending ridiculous amounts of money.

    A lot of the parts are second hand, some I get at cost from the shop i work at ( I know that's sort of cheating , but hey)

    The crankset I want to use is an ancient Stronglight 49d (which I know is ISO) I bought it cheap and it weighs an incredible 325 grammes without a ring. If I can use the TA Axix Light Pro BB (160 grammes, if it is JIS and I can use the 113 mm), I will have a chainring custom made at approx 80 grammes by cycleunderground and end up with a 580 grammes Crankset/ BB combination!

    I have worked out that the 49d will work on a 113 mm JIS BB, which Sheldon Brown says is ok to do as long as you don't keep taking the crankset on and off. By the way, I have access to a Stronglight 23.35 mm crank puller. If I am forced to use an ISO TA BB however, lengthwise, I would need about a 119 mm spindle, increasing the weight of the BB.

    The only real other option in super lightweight and ISO is a Phil Wood Magnum Ti, but that is about triple the cost and I get to pay shipping from the US plus import duties.

    I know to most of you this all sounds pretty ridiculous, but I have found that the only way to built a lightweight bike is to scrutinize each and every component for weight. I am not into crabon and parts that are so light they will fail (Stronglight Pulsion crankset anyone?). So, this crankset and BB fit my mission to build this bike at the target weight and within a reasonable budget perfectly.

    Also, this bike will not see heavy use and will be only be ridden in fair weather conditions (alu nipples in the wheels) and on good pavement etc, so I'm not worried that the BB is not a cartridge type.

    Thank you for your response, both of you!
    You fixed my flat tire and now my light doesn't work, so...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    I was with you until you said that you would need a 119mm spindle for a Stronglight 49D. All of my old French cranks use a 118mm ISO spindle for a double. I've used 115mm ISO for a fixed gear with a T.A. Professional 3 pin. I used a Miche Primato, but you wouldn't be interested in those. They're pretty heavy.

  6. #6
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batavus View Post
    Thank you. Did read that one. It clearly states that TA is ISO, but I also found an article saying that TA switched from ISO to JIS at some point, but didn't bother to tell anyone.

    Wiggle cycles in the UK has it listed as JIS, yet I e-mailed Spa cycles (also Uk) and they say the ones they have in stock are ISO.

    Here's the deal. I am anything but a weight weenie normally. I find a stiff frame and bulletproof wheels for example much more important as I generally am a masher and can put out a fair amount of watts in a sprint, but my current project evolved from being yet another fixed gear project into a gram counting extravaganza.

    It started when I built myself a set of lightweight track wheels. They came in at 1322 grammes as opposed to 2200 grammes for the Phil Wood/Deep V combo I was riding at the time. Then I upgraded to a Wabi cycles Lightning frameset from a generic alu track frame. I alo wanted road geometry and found that in the Wabi. Shaved off more than a pound in the process.

    So now I am going all the way and aiming for a 13 pound fixed gear with a front brake, bell and water bottle cage. And doing it without spending ridiculous amounts of money.

    A lot of the parts are second hand, some I get at cost from the shop i work at ( I know that's sort of cheating , but hey)

    The crankset I want to use is an ancient Stronglight 49d (which I know is ISO) I bought it cheap and it weighs an incredible 325 grammes without a ring. If I can use the TA Axix Light Pro BB (160 grammes, if it is JIS and I can use the 113 mm), I will have a chainring custom made at approx 80 grammes by cycleunderground and end up with a 580 grammes Crankset/ BB combination!

    I have worked out that the 49d will work on a 113 mm JIS BB, which Sheldon Brown says is ok to do as long as you don't keep taking the crankset on and off. By the way, I have access to a Stronglight 23.35 mm crank puller. If I am forced to use an ISO TA BB however, lengthwise, I would need about a 119 mm spindle, increasing the weight of the BB.

    The only real other option in super lightweight and ISO is a Phil Wood Magnum Ti, but that is about triple the cost and I get to pay shipping from the US plus import duties.

    I know to most of you this all sounds pretty ridiculous, but I have found that the only way to built a lightweight bike is to scrutinize each and every component for weight. I am not into crabon and parts that are so light they will fail (Stronglight Pulsion crankset anyone?). So, this crankset and BB fit my mission to build this bike at the target weight and within a reasonable budget perfectly.

    Also, this bike will not see heavy use and will be only be ridden in fair weather conditions (alu nipples in the wheels) and on good pavement etc, so I'm not worried that the BB is not a cartridge type.

    Thank you for your response, both of you!
    Actually that's not ridiculous at all, here's the reason why I asked -

    1) my fixed gear is currently sitting at 16lbs.
    2) The wheelset is heavy - at around 2700g (no tires/tubes) but with cog/lockring -> phils last gen shamals
    3) Dropping weight to 13lbs requires an approximate wheelset weight of about 1200'ish grams (assuming tyres are about 200g a piece, tubes 40g). Wheelsets that fit into that weight range are ridiculously expensive, or tubulars.

    What is your lightweight track wheelset build? And cost?
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    I was with you until you said that you would need a 119mm spindle for a Stronglight 49D. All of my old French cranks use a 118mm ISO spindle for a double. I've used 115mm ISO for a fixed gear with a T.A. Professional 3 pin. I used a Miche Primato, but you wouldn't be interested in those. They're pretty heavy.
    The 119 figure was just a guestimate. Actually, I am going to try to borrow a Campagnolo 115.5 (the longest ISO spindle stil made by Campagnolo, or Miche) and test fit the 49d on that. If it works out, or only just, I will order the TA Axix 116mm, as it has adjustable chainline. The problem is that with the 113 JIS BB, the chainring bolts just hit the drive side BB cup (tiny BCD) when I hand press the crank on, so it will definately become more of a problem when I torque it up. Might have try to find flathead bolts or something.

    @Operator, I used a Novatec superlight front road hub, sapim lasers, alu nipples and a Kinlin XR-200 28h for the front: weight without skewer:606 grammes
    Rear is a cutom built Mack hub from Poland, single sided. It weighs 145 g, without hardware. With 2 bolts, washers and a lockring, it weighs 190 g. For the rear I used an XR-200 32h laced three cross DS with DT comp and brass nips for reliability and on the NDS, Sapim Lasers again, two cross with alu nipps. 716 grammes.

    In retrospect I would have also laced the NDS with DT comp and three cross, because the hub is dishless even in the single sided version.

    I used Conti Supersonic lightweight tubes, regular rim tape (might switch to veloplugs, just for laughs) and Schwalbe Ulremo tires (regular version, not the R model) The Ultremos are claimed at 190 g, but I weighed one at 180 and one at 170, which may be due to wear.

    The entire wheelset, including a 20g 17T cog ( VeloSolo), tires, tubes, rimtape and all hardware weighs 1930 g. I spent 250 euros, but that is without shipping costs (and import duties!) of all the different parts that came from everywhere. I try not to think about the total cost, living in the US surely helps when one wants boutique bicycle parts!
    Last edited by Batavus; 01-19-10 at 04:01 PM.

  8. #8
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    Without commenting on your crank/chainline ideas:

    I measured a phil wood ISO, a phil wood JIS and a TA Axix Light Pro that I purchased recently from Peter White Cycles:

    It is difficult to nail the measurement at the thick part of the taper as it curves up at the end. The narrow end is easier to measure and more accurate.

    It certainly appears as if my TA Axix bottom bracket is JIS. While the PW JIS is a bit longer and a little bit thicker at the thick end (due to it's extra length?) the thin ends are exactly the same.

    The PW ISO is a bit thinner all the way around and the taper shorter.

    see attached...ta phil bb measurements.jpg
    Last edited by bbelhumeur; 01-19-10 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    Thank you for that info! This is why I possted this thread. Someone is pretty sure it is JIS and an other says it is probably ISO. I sent TA another e-mail asking the same question again and advising them to put info like this on their website. It could well be that they were made both in ISO and JIS versions, but there is no way of finding out. One online shops even manages to tell me that it is ISO in one e-mail and then that it's JIS in another!

    They also claim that chainline is not adjustable when I thought the two separate lockrings meant that the chainline can be tweaked at least a little bit. Does anyone know about that?

    Thanks again!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batavus View Post
    They also claim that chainline is not adjustable when I thought the two separate lockrings meant that the chainline can be tweaked at least a little bit. Does anyone know about that?

    AXIS.Light.jpgXYTECH.jpg

    Not really sure, as I haven't done this. The bottom bracket doesn't have two separate lockrings, however. The drive side cup screws in and bottoms out, with the shoulders of the cup tightening against the BB shell. The non drive side cup has no shoulders, but a separate lock ring that tightens down on the BB shell.

    In the photos above, it certainly seems like the Xytech (no longer made?) had two separate lockrings, and you can't really tell in the picture of the Axix.

    My Axix Light Pro, however, is all silver and has only one lockring.

    ta axix pro light.jpg

    But it seems as though you could but a spacer between the bottom bracket shell and the drive side fixed cup. The problem is that you might not have enough threads to grab with the lock ring on the other side.

    I thought I read on Peter White's site that you can place an internal spacer between the non-drive side bearing and its cup. This would effectively push the entire axle and drive side cup to the right and still allow you to thread the lockring on. But this won't work if the drive side cup has shoulders. Maybe I am missing something. I've never tried to do this.

    Hope this helps.


    EDIT: Found instructions....FYI

    axix light instructions.jpg
    Last edited by bbelhumeur; 01-20-10 at 03:59 PM.

  11. #11
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    bbelhumeur: Thanks again! I very much appreciate this!

    Just got an e-mail from TA, they say it's ISO, so I guess it is. The aformentioned online shop still claims it's JIS.

    Thanks again!

  12. #12
    2_i
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbelhumeur View Post
    Not really sure, as I haven't done this. The bottom bracket doesn't have two separate lockrings, however. The drive side cup screws in and bottoms out, with the shoulders of the cup tightening against the BB shell. The non drive side cup has no shoulders, but a separate lock ring that tightens down on the BB shell.
    My Axix has lockrings on both sides. Whether or not the driveside has a lip, you can put a spacer there. Otherwise, to adjust the chainline, I have been using internal spacers after reading about them in a TA leaflet. However, I made those spacers myself figuring out that it would be too much bother to try to get them from TA though their dealer.

    Looking over your instructions:

    Quote Originally Posted by bbelhumeur View Post
    EDIT: Found instructions....FYI
    I am now confused. My BB certainly predates Carmina and Vega. Now those later cranksets are, to the best of my knowledge JIS. Your instructions mention the use of an axle compatible with Carmina and Vega. Maybe it is possible to get different axles for Axix?

    Notably, Axix uses stock bearings common for BBs. Because of this, it can be possible to interchange axle and cups with other BBs (most of which have departed though into the past). An issue can be the fit between the axle and opening in the BB, in my memory.

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