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  1. #1
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    27" wheel -> 29"

    Can I switch my 27" wheels to 29" wheels? Or will most frames for 27" wheels not work with 29"?

    I assume I would have to change/adjust my brakes.

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    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chico1st View Post
    Can I switch my 27" wheels to 29" wheels? Or will most frames for 27" wheels not work with 29"?

    I assume I would have to change/adjust my brakes.
    Well here's where it gets wierd. You see. a 27" wheel rim is larger than a 29" rim. 29" is what they call a 700c when it's fitted with wide tall tires.
    The 27" rim is 630mm bead seat dia. the 29r is 622.
    If you have 4mm downward travel available on your brakes, it will likely work. It's done all the time.

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    Diametrally speaking you can easily put 29er wheels into a 27" frame because the 29ers are 622mm and the 27s are 630mm.

    However, the rim width may present a problem. It would likely fit in the frame but if it is a wider rim, it is possible it would be unsafe to use with a tire which was narrow enough to fit the frame. You don't want to put too narrow of a tire on a wide rim. I know a recommended limit for my 27mm wide Rhynolites is around 1.4.

    You could probably fit hybrid tires into a 27" frame no problem, because the 27" bikes I have seen usually come with plenty of clearance around a 32mm tire and can run 35 or 37mm cyclocross knobbies (27x1-3/8) no problem. However, it would be wise to check how much clearance you had in the frame, fork, and under the brakes.
    Last edited by garage sale GT; 01-17-10 at 07:27 PM.

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    sorry by 29" I meant 700c... which looks like it should work fine... sweet.

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    The brakes should have enough adjustment just by moving the pads down because a lot of bikes came with 27" training wheels and 700c tubulars which were called 27 but were the same size as 700.

    29" or "29er" is the colloquial name for 700c/622mm mountain bike equipment.

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    29" or "29er" is the colloquial name for 700c/622mm mountain bike equipment.
    my bad

  7. #7
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    29" or 29er is just marketing hype invented by some guy trying to re-invent the 700c large tire/wheel market for themselves just to get 15 minutes of fame and a billion in the bank and some bike "culture" wannabes to call him "dude!"

    =8-)

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    ???why shouldn't 700c mountain components have their own name?

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    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage sale GT View Post
    Diametrally speaking you can easily put 29er wheels into a 27" frame because the 29ers are 622mm and the 27s are 630mm.

    However, the rim width may present a problem. It would likely fit in the frame but if it is a wider rim, it is possible it would be unsafe to use with a tire which was narrow enough to fit the frame. You don't want to put too narrow of a tire on a wide rim. I know a recommended limit for my 27mm wide Rhynolites is around 1.4.

    You could probably fit hybrid tires into a 27" frame no problem, because the 27" bikes I have seen usually come with plenty of clearance around a 32mm tire and can run 35 or 37mm cyclocross knobbies (27x1-3/8) no problem. However, it would be wise to check how much clearance you had in the frame, fork, and under the brakes.
    It's also possible that the 29er tire is so much bigger than the 27 inch tire that the overall diameter of the 29er is significantly more than the 27 inch. It that case radial fork and brake bridge clearance is an issue, especially with fenders.

  10. #10
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    29" or 29er is just marketing hype invented by some guy trying to re-invent the 700c large tire/wheel market for themselves just to get 15 minutes of fame and a billion in the bank and some bike "culture" wannabes to call him "dude!"

    =8-)
    I think we've discussed this before a bit, and I really get the impression your shop doesn't have many mountain bike customers(?). If it really bothers you that some mountain bike tires are called, say, 29 x 2.2 instead of, say, 700 x 56c, that's your business and you're entitled to your opinion. But I remember you saying customers will come in and ask for a 29er tire and then you will, exasperated with their cluelessness, show them something in 700 x 32c or whatever. And sure enough, it will turn out that they didn't need a 29er mountain bike tire after all, they needed a hybrid tire.

    What the heck is going on out there in San Jose? Do you not have any 29er mountain bikes? Have you not noticed the huge numbers of these bikes being produced by nearly every major bike brand? Have you ever seen or ridden one? Whatever the heck you want to call them, the wheels (with the inflated mountain bike tires installed) are indeed huge compared to anything else commonly available.

    And throughout their history, mountain bikes, being an American invention, have always had their frame sizes referred to in inches, not centimeters, and their tire sizes referred to in inches as well (26 x 2.1" as an example). To me, it makes sense to refer to a true mountain bike tire (not a hybrid tire!) in inches. I have a good point of reference when I think of, say, a 26 x 2.2 mtb tire, and if the same tire is available in 29 x 2.2, I'll know, without any conversion necessary, how wide that tire will be on the larger diameter rim.

    And btw, the guy who "invented" 29ers, defined as mountain bikes designed for big fat tires mounted on 700c rims, is neither famous nor rich. Not by a long shot. He does, however, despise Gary Fisher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    And btw, the guy who "invented" 29ers, defined as mountain bikes designed for big fat tires mounted on 700c rims, is neither famous nor rich. Not by a long shot. He does, however, despise Gary Fisher.
    Very often the person who actually invents a product or comes up with a new concept is not the one that benefits in fame or finances from it but the guy who produces and markets it does.

    "Gatorade" was developed by a man at the University of FL and sold millions and millions of dollars worth. However, the inventor made nearly nothing from his invention for decades until enough publicity finally shamed the producer (Stokely Van Camp, IIRC) into rewarding him a bit.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    I think we've discussed this before a bit, and I really get the impression your shop doesn't have many mountain bike customers(?). If it really bothers you that some mountain bike tires are called, say, 29 x 2.2 instead of, say, 700 x 56c, that's your business and you're entitled to your opinion. But I remember you saying customers will come in and ask for a 29er tire and then you will, exasperated with their cluelessness, show them something in 700 x 32c or whatever. And sure enough, it will turn out that they didn't need a 29er mountain bike tire after all, they needed a hybrid tire.

    What the heck is going on out there in San Jose? Do you not have any 29er mountain bikes? Have you not noticed the huge numbers of these bikes being produced by nearly every major bike brand? Have you ever seen or ridden one? Whatever the heck you want to call them, the wheels (with the inflated mountain bike tires installed) are indeed huge compared to anything else commonly available.

    And throughout their history, mountain bikes, being an American invention, have always had their frame sizes referred to in inches, not centimeters, and their tire sizes referred to in inches as well (26 x 2.1" as an example). To me, it makes sense to refer to a true mountain bike tire (not a hybrid tire!) in inches. I have a good point of reference when I think of, say, a 26 x 2.2 mtb tire, and if the same tire is available in 29 x 2.2, I'll know, without any conversion necessary, how wide that tire will be on the larger diameter rim.

    And btw, the guy who "invented" 29ers, defined as mountain bikes designed for big fat tires mounted on 700c rims, is neither famous nor rich. Not by a long shot. He does, however, despise Gary Fisher.

    Here' the problem in a nutshell:

    There's enough confusion already in the bicycle tire market already with the multitude of tire sizes available...why add more especially considering that the "new" reference isn't for a new tire but rather nothing more than a marketing rehash and hype?

    I'm not the only person shaking his head...the several shops I visit...all in private shake their heads as well.

    It's frustrating and time consuming enough already to have a customer walk in without his bike or wheel or tire and the following ensues:

    Customer: I need a tire for my mountain bike...
    Shop: Does it have 24" wheels or 26" wheels?
    Customer: Um...I don't know...it's a mountain bike.
    Shop: (Points to two different bike on the racks...)
    Customer: Oh..that one...(points to an MTB bike with 26" wheels...)
    Shop: Okay...26 by 1.5, 26 x 1.95 or 26 x 2.125?
    Customer: Um...not sure...
    Shop: (Grabs a 1.5, a 1.95 and a 2.125....)
    Customer: Oh...that one right there look pretty close...(points to the 1.95).


    Now let's do a take two with the above dialog as a customer walks in claiming he has a 29er and needs a tire...and of course doesn't have the bike, wheel or tire with him:

    Customer: I need a tire for my 29er...
    Shop: Does it say "29" on the side of the tire?
    Customer: Um...I don't know...I'm pretty sure it's a 29er...my friends say I have a 29er.
    Shop: (Points to several different 700c tires up on the the racks...)
    Shop: How fat does the tire look...does it look like any of these...
    Customer: Oh..that one...(points to a 700 x 45c tire...)
    Shop: (Hands the customer the 700 x 45c tire...)
    Customer: Um...this says 700 x 45c...I need a 29" tire...
    Shop: Don't mean to talk down to you or offend you in anyway - 29er tires are 700c tires...
    Customer: Oh...well my friend was telling me that I have to buy a 29" tire...
    Shop: Yeah...well basically all a 29er is is a hybrid-mountain bike with really fat 700c tires.
    Customer: (Thinks for a minute...) So...I really don't have a 29er then?
    Shop: Technically...yes...but a lot of folks now are calling hybrid-mountain bikes 29er's anyway.
    Customer: So are you sure this is the right tire?

    ...and so it goes...for the next 5 minutes the shop has to reassure the customer several times over that the tire will work just fine...and even if it doesn't...bring it and the bike right back and they'll take care of things...

    ...and then 15 minutes later another person walks in needing a tire...


    Poor customer just trying to navigate the worldly maze of different tire specs and trying to trust his local LBS has been victimized not because a fundamental bike design change has occurred - but rather because some moron out there realizing that their "new" hybrid would just be another hybrid in a mature an stable hybrid market needed to establish a "category" of his own in order for it to get the "NEW AND DIIFFERENT" label hype and marketing that would make it stand out.


    Don't get me wrong...from a shop perspective...products are products...sales are sales...I'm going to sell the customer what he wants - hopefully I have it.


    My point really is...I feel sorry for the customer who once again has to adapt...not because of some fundamental design or frame size change - but for nothing more than marketing and hype. I see it as jerking the customer around.


    As a side note...I'm a teacher as well. One thing drives us teachers nuts is for someone to call a seminar to teach us a new and innovative method...only for us to realize 5 minutes in that it is nothing more than "A" that was rehashed as "B" a decade ago and is now presented as "C" and we are all expected to embrace it along with all of its "new" labels and an adopt it - NEVER MIND THAT "B" WAS BANNED Xn YEARS AGO and "B" WAS ADOPTED AFTER "A" WAS BANNED A DECADE BEFORE.

    Waste of time and energy for the consumer...waste of time, money and energy for teachers...waste of money as in, "I need to hit the bar for a stiff drink!!!".

    =8-)

  13. #13
    30mi/day commuter
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    lol i tell all my friends to call me before they buy anything for their bikes.
    I think everyone who bikes needs a bike mechanic friend, to wade through the craziness and to tell them what they do and dont need replaced...regardless of what the shop says.

  14. #14
    I have senior moments... bikinfool's Avatar
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    Funny how if you buy a car tire you better be damn specific, but for a bicycle so many people assume they're all the same?
    suum quique
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  15. #15
    Senior Member exRunner's Avatar
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    You walk into a big car tire house (we have Mavis) and tell them the year and model of your car and you are set.

    You can do the same thing with bikepedia in a bike shop. There is no need for 20 questions. You don't even need the year in most cases. Just who made it and the model. If a customer does not know that, interrogation under the sodium lights is not going to help.
    Last edited by exRunner; 01-18-10 at 03:29 PM. Reason: can't spell today

  16. #16
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    Here' the problem in a nutshell:
    .....Waste of time and energy for the consumer...waste of time, money and energy for teachers...waste of money as in, "I need to hit the bar for a stiff drink!!!".

    =8-)
    Dude, that wasn't a nutshell, it's a novel. You just don't like 29ers

  17. #17
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
    Shop: Yeah...well basically all a 29er is is a hybrid-mountain bike with really fat 700c tires.
    Is this really what you think? Have you ever seen a 29er mountain bike? Ridden one?

  18. #18
    Senior Member vredstein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exRunner View Post
    You walk into a big car tire house (we have Mavis) and tell them the year and model of your car and you are set.

    You can do the same thing with bikepedia in a bike shop. There is no need for 20 questions. You don't even need the year in most cases. Just who made it and the model. If a customer does not know that, interrogation under the sodium lights is not going to help.
    I agree. Most people with a 29'er know they have a 29'er. Chances are, the bike itself has "29'er" or "twentyniner" splashed all over the frame. The owner didn't accidentally purchase a 29'er bike. They either read about them, had friends who convinced them to get one, or had a bike shop salesman convince them, giving them the whole pitch concerning the advantages.
    Let the customer ask the questions. If it's clear the customer doesn't know what size he needs, a red flag should go off. Have him bring in the bike. Once he has the bike in the shop, there's every chance you'll be able to sell him something along with the tire.
    The bike makers, tire makers, and customers have adopted the 29'er term. It's useless to trying to turn back the clock, or hold out on speaking the language because you have a problem with the terminology.
    "See, it's not that getting wet is a big deal. Really, it's what you're getting wet with.
    Fenders....because it's probably urine."
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  19. #19
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    And btw, the guy who "invented" 29ers, defined as mountain bikes designed for big fat tires mounted on 700c rims, is neither famous nor rich. Not by a long shot. He does, however, despise Gary Fisher.
    Now, I recall seeing an early prototype mountain bike from the 50's, developed independently of the re-pack hill crowd. It was built around an old ten speed frame, with cantilever brakes brazed on, and fat 700c tires. Does that make it a 29er?

    I can't for the life of me remember the guys name, but he called it a 'woodsie'

  20. #20
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    29'rs have quite the following and they have their +/-... but they are simply a wider 622 rim with a wider deeper tyre that is designed for off road riding.

    A purpose built bike is going to have additional clearance to accommodate the rim / tyre whereas a bike designed to run 622 hybrid wheels / tyres may not have enough clearance and most 700c road bikes are quite limited as to the tyre sizes they can use depending on their configuration.

    Full on racing bikes may be limited to a 25 or a 28 while touring bikes and cross bikes can usually handle a 32 or 35 and still have room for fenders... my hybrid can handle massive tyres as it has some insane clearances and anything smaller than a 700:35 looks like it is too small for the bike.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikinfool View Post
    Funny how if you buy a car tire you better be damn specific, but for a bicycle so many people assume they're all the same?
    People needing new tires for their cars almost always have the car with them and the dealer can go out and see exactly what size is on it. Customers very rarely come in just for tires without the car they are to go on.

    Bike tire customers often come into the LBS sans bike.

  22. #22
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzz2050 View Post
    Now, I recall seeing an early prototype mountain bike from the 50's, developed independently of the re-pack hill crowd. It was built around an old ten speed frame, with cantilever brakes brazed on, and fat 700c tires. Does that make it a 29er?

    I can't for the life of me remember the guys name, but he called it a 'woodsie'
    Keep in mind, as mountain bikes came into being, they were all cobbled together from bikes that weren't "mountain bikes." As for your question, "does that make it a 29er?" I would say, at that time (the 1950's), call it whatever you want. "Woodsie" sounds as good as anything to me. See my above post for why I think it makes sense to call a 29" tire a 29" tire now.

  23. #23
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vredstein View Post
    Most people with a 29'er know they have a 29'er.
    Exactly. That's what baffles me about mr rabbit's postings on the subject. He keeps referring to these customers that have hybrids and yet ask for 29" tires, and then he has to explain that they simply need a hybrid tire. Okay, fine, I could see that happening occasionally. But this seems to be his only experience regarding 29" tires. I've asked him in two different threads whether his shop carries 29er mountain bikes. I've asked him if mountain bikers with 29ers ever come into his shop, not hybrid riders thinking they have 29ers, but actual mountain bikers who do have 29ers. They need tires sometimes. No response, other than to repeat the stories of the mistaken hybrid riders. And then comes the text I highlighted in post #17.

    If you're gonna go off on 29ers, that's fine if you know what you're talking about. I think it's preferable if you've actually ridden one off road a bit. Experience off road with a 26"bike, and experience off road with a 29"bike. If you prefer the 26"bike, that's cool; 29ers aren't for everybody-
    Last edited by well biked; 01-18-10 at 07:40 PM.

  24. #24
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I have to say that the ride you get on a larger diameter tyre can be very nice... my old roadster runs English oversized 28's which have a 635mm rim and some fairly high volume tyres... it devours bumps.

  25. #25
    I have senior moments... bikinfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    People needing new tires for their cars almost always have the car with them and the dealer can go out and see exactly what size is on it. Customers very rarely come in just for tires without the car they are to go on.

    Bike tire customers often come into the LBS sans bike.
    I shop them hard, always have to go look. Then I always know what I want with bike tires, too, so my experiences don't matter much. I have sold bike tires to clueless people, though...amazing how little some know about what they ride.
    suum quique
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