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  1. #1
    i'll probably break it 91MF's Avatar
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    adding canti brakes

    so i have an old italian road frame that i use to shoot around/get beer/treat like crap - fixy-fied previously, now single speeded with drops. now i wanna put 700x32c tires, the biggest that clear the chainstays. i could probably find a frame with rear canti mounts but then i would probably have touring geo and no 73deg headtube angle[i like aggressive geo]. i have some old sidepull weinmanns that are barely clearing and would like a better option. swapping a fork is easy but how do i get cantis on the rear - aside from welding?
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  2. #2
    AEO
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    have you ever considered using some wider opening callipers?
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
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  3. #3
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Rear brake-calipers shouldn't be a clearance issue. Typically large tyres will rub under the brake-bolt and the seat-stay brake-bridge at about the same time. So even if you remove the caliper, you'll still be rubbing the brake-bridge.

    How about posting a picture of the issue you have?

    Brazing on a set of canti-bosses is simple. Takes about 5-10 minutes if you've got the equipment and jigs. I built a plate that lets me hold two cantilever bosses so their pivot-axes are parallel at any distance apart. This makes it much easier to machine the mating surfaces with the seat-stays perfectly.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    .......Brazing on a set of canti-bosses is simple. Takes about 5-10 minutes if you've got the equipment and jigs........
    I agree. But most folks won't have the brazing torch and machines needed to produce the jig that is required. Not to mention that the seat stays for a good 3 to 4 inches on each side of the brazing site will require repainting. So I'd politely suggest that this simple procedure isn't so simple.

    91MF, if you're trying to shoehorn a 32mm tire onto a rim sized to be optimum for a skinny 23 to 25 mm tire then yeah, you're going to run into problems with the caliper opening far enough unless you accept the need to loosen the cable pinch bolt each time. None of the sidepull calipers I've seen have that much movement. But if you're willing to replace the rear wheel with one using a rim the right widt for the 32 or to swap the rim on the wheel you have for this then the caliper won't need to open as far from the normal position.
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  5. #5
    AEO
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    actually I was going to say. tektro has dual pivot calipers that when combined with their brake lever will open up wide enough for 35mm tires.

    R538, R730 or R736 with RL340

    my 27" conversion uses R556 with R100a which has no problem with 35mm wide tires.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  6. #6
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Trust me, they still don't work if the tire is mounted on skinny rims. Been dere, dun dat. Too much sidewall overhang. Mounted some 28's on rims intended for 23 to maybe 25 and while I could get the wheels out it took some wiggling and pulling to get them out and pushing and wiggle to get them back in. 32's would have been right out of the question. And this was with one of the Tektro long reach calipers you mentioned.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member vredstein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91MF View Post
    so i have an old italian road frame that i use to shoot around/get beer/treat like crap - fixy-fied previously, now single speeded with drops. now i wanna put 700x32c tires, the biggest that clear the chainstays. i could probably find a frame with rear canti mounts but then i would probably have touring geo and no 73deg headtube angle[i like aggressive geo]. i have some old sidepull weinmanns that are barely clearing and would like a better option. swapping a fork is easy but how do i get cantis on the rear - aside from welding?
    Are you sure touring geometry is going to be a deal-breaker on a single-speed with 32c tires? You could probably find a cyclocross frame with aggressive geometry.
    "See, it's not that getting wet is a big deal. Really, it's what you're getting wet with.
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  8. #8
    i'll probably break it 91MF's Avatar
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    thanks for the responses folks.

    yea buying another frame is not the idea here - im on the cheap, have this bike which i like its ride/geo. also the tires dont rub the brake bridge so im good there.

    a co-worker told me trek used to sell little aluminum pieces that were concaved to fit around the seatstay and a bolt passed through to secure them. you could add cantis to a frame by drilling a small hole through the stay. i went to my local trek dealer and they were less than helpful[worst lbs in my area btw] if anyone knows what im talking about[its hard to explain but i could draw a picture haha] and knows the part#/where to get them?
    bike. throw. #MFDCR

  9. #9
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    I had a post all written saying that I'd never seen such a thing when I then figured I'd better google for it. There's not much out there since any adapters of this sort have long been unneccessary thanks to so many bikes coming with canti bosses where appropriate. However I did turn up this picture of one persons adapter. He was all proud about adding the bracket and adjuster on top and little was said about the adapter itself. So at least we know your buddy wasn't smoking something....

    Still, I've never seen such a beast in all my years of scrounging through junk boxes in used bike shops looking for widgets. Best of luck with finding such a thing. Although if you're handy with metal something like this would not be hard to make. Just time consumning. If you do try making one be sure to use only the best grade aircraft aluminium with a higher heat treat spec such as 6061-T6. You'll want all the stiffness and highest yeild to bending that you can get.

    This particular one was named an Xtracycle 700c V-Brake Adapter if that helps.

    The other issue is your rim to tire fit. If your rims are narrow enough that you've got so much sidewall overhang that getting them in and out of the present calipers is an issue why not just bump the tire size back a notch and go with 28mm? 28mm is a really nice serviceable and practical size for a city bike. The ones I'm using soak up bumps and potholes nicely when run at around 80 psi.
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    Last edited by BCRider; 01-18-10 at 09:30 AM.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  10. #10
    Senior Member cyclist2000's Avatar
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    google for "v brake plate" for that product.
    I don't do vintage, I bought them new, rode them, kept them. Now they are just old bikes
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bustercrb/sets/72157623483647522/

  11. #11
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    The plate in the picture must be for cantilever brakes since it has a stop.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    Trust me, they still don't work if the tire is mounted on skinny rims. Been dere, dun dat. Too much sidewall overhang. Mounted some 28's on rims intended for 23 to maybe 25 and while I could get the wheels out it took some wiggling and pulling to get them out and pushing and wiggle to get them back in. 32's would have been right out of the question. And this was with one of the Tektro long reach calipers you mentioned.
    Did you also use Tektro's brake levers with the calipers? Like these: http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=69380265037

    These have a qr button in the lever just like Campy Ergos and, that release coupled with a qr on the caliper itself, really opens the calipers WIDE. I have a similar combination (Tektro levers and Shimano 105 brakes) on one bike and it seems with both qr's open they would clear a car tire.

  13. #13
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    The plate in the picture must be for cantilever brakes since it has a stop.
    The person that posted that picture had made and added the stop and was all proud of it. A nice idea but the metal he used seems a little on the thin side to me. After all that stop has to withstand the reflected pressure of the cable tension.

    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Did you also use Tektro's brake levers with the calipers? Like these: http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=69380265037......
    No, I just relied on the release on the calipers themselves. I didn't know they made a lever that allowed a further cable slackening. Nice find. That would be a nice solution to the OP's desire to use fat tires on skinny rims for this case and would avoid the kludgey look on the rear and the need for a new fork at the front.

    I still think 28mm tires would be a better option even if they still required these special levers. 32 mm tires are typically quite heavy, no? Spinning that much up from a start is going to slow down a lot of the perky feel of the bike that 91MF is trying to retain given his issues with the touring geometry mentioned in the original post. It's not in the same league but I did a city mountain bike up using the big fat Kenda K-Rads in 26x2.30. They rolled well and the bike looked killer but it felt like a SLUG. I later dumped the K-Rads and put on some 26x1.5 Tioga City Slickers. The bike went from feeling like a soccer mom van to a sports car. All just because of some weight in the tires. So all in all I still say that some different tires would be an all around better solution to both this brake issue and to ensuring that the bike retains the sporty feel and performance. But of course we all march to the beat of a different drummer...... Hell, if it was me and I wanted to keep the sporty feel I'd be mounting 25's as a nod to practicality over the original 23's and calling it good.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  14. #14
    i'll probably break it 91MF's Avatar
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    hey guys thanks for all the responses - actual helpful convo is hard to find on the internet

    i have a pic of the bike with 35s mounted[they are too big for the chainstays]. took this pic after quickly putting together the bike with spares in the basement to get an idea. my kid helped me out. haha

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  15. #15
    WNG
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    A mechanic in the making!

    I'd toss in a suggestion to switch to a set of old school Mafac Racer centerpulls.
    Or search for BMX brake boss adapter plates. Similar to the one pictured above (700C). The spacing may work in your situation.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    At first glance I thought it was you standing next to some giant custom advertising bike...

    Whichever way you finally go with the build just be sure to have fun and remember that nothing is permanent.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  17. #17
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNG View Post
    A mechanic in the making!

    I'd toss in a suggestion to switch to a set of old school Mafac Racer centerpulls.
    Or search for BMX brake boss adapter plates. Similar to the one pictured above (700C). The spacing may work in your situation.
    Mafac racers may be the way to go, although I've found they can still be a bit tight when getting a 35mm tire out.

  18. #18
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Mafac Racer brakes are excellent, and they're not hard to find.

    Gee, wouldn't it be nice if they went back into production?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  19. #19
    headtube. zzyzx_xyzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    Still, I've never seen such a beast in all my years of scrounging through junk boxes in used bike shops looking for widgets. Best of luck with finding such a thing. Although if you're handy with metal something like this would not be hard to make. Just time consumning. If you do try making one be sure to use only the best grade aircraft aluminium with a higher heat treat spec such as 6061-T6. You'll want all the stiffness and highest yeild to bending that you can get.

    This particular one was named an Xtracycle 700c V-Brake Adapter if that helps.

    The other issue is your rim to tire fit. If your rims are narrow enough that you've got so much sidewall overhang that getting them in and out of the present calipers is an issue why not just bump the tire size back a notch and go with 28mm? 28mm is a really nice serviceable and practical size for a city bike. The ones I'm using soak up bumps and potholes nicely when run at around 80 psi.
    That adapter is for putting 700c wheels in a frame that already has canti posts set for 26" wheels. The lower holes bolt to canti studs that are already on the frame. So it wouldn't help the OP with a frame that has no posts.

    I find the tektro brake levers with the quick release button easily give enough slack in sidepulls to pull out a 28mm tire mounted on a 14mm inside width rim. A 32mm tire scrapes between the pads but also comes out OK. If you have a release both at the lever and at the caliper, 35 should be no problem. I also prefer the shape of the hoods on the tektros over older aero levers.

    The existing sidepulls would give better braking than any bolt-on adapter plates. Too much flex in those.

  20. #20
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    why not just run narrower tires? 28's arn't exactly skinny. that and you don't have to braze on canti studs.

  21. #21
    i'll probably break it 91MF's Avatar
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    thanks guys. i want to run a 32c tire because i want to ride this bike on the road, grass, dirt, loose gravel, etc.
    bike. throw. #MFDCR

  22. #22
    DLM
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    A separate issue with brazing canti studs onto a road bike is that the stays aren't designed to have force applied in that direction by the brakes. Bikes with canti's usually have beefier stays to handle the spreading force. Might be fine, but there's a risk of bending or breaking the stays or nearby joints.

  23. #23
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    I used a hammer and chisel on my silver Raleigh Phaser when I was trying to fit a 195 tyre in where a 1 3/8" tyre had been. By placing the chisel on the inside of the chainstay and making a groove on there.
    A lot of bikes have these grooves to flatten the tube for tyre or crank clearance. Ive seen frame builders pictures of them doing it.

    As for the brake adaptor plates. I have one thats strong steel plate. Probably as heavy as the frame. But have seen nice alloy ones

  24. #24
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    I have set up a 80's Bridgestone 400 as a SS CX bike with the center pulls. The bike was originally designed for 27's so a 700 with a 32mm cross tire was no issue. The brakes worked really well, had both good modulation and stopping power. Probably better than my actual race cross bike.

    All that being said, I think centerpulls are your best bet. Should be cheap and work well.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  25. #25
    i'll probably break it 91MF's Avatar
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    i think i have some old dia-compe centrepulls out in the carport somewhere. maybe i should try those.

    thanks again guys.
    bike. throw. #MFDCR

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