Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-10, 07:02 AM   #1
pistolpedro
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
modern groupset / old frame

Have an old steel bike frame from the 1960's and i am fitting 9 speed campagnolo mirage groupset with ergo shifters

frame was originally designed for bar end shifters so has braze on cable guides (were downtube shifters are usually located)

I have seen on modern bikes they usually have two cable adjusters on the downtube

Will i need to remove the existing guides and replace with a braze on which allows the fitment of these adjusters or can the ergos and mechs function without them?

I will be increasing the rear spacing to 130mm, and changing the derailleur hanger is there anything else i need to look out for ?

pete
pistolpedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 07:54 AM   #2
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
You can use the current downtube braze-on cable housing stops just the way they are.

The rear derailleur will have it's own built-in adjusting barrel so you don't need one on the downtube. You won't be able to adjust the shifting while riding but that's a very minor inconvenience.

You need a cable adjuster for the front derailleur but in-line cable adjusters are available so you don't require a downtube adjuster. In fact, given Campy's "micro adjusting" (read ratcheting) front shifting, you may be able to go without the in-line adjuster if you do the initial set it up carefully. However, I'd add one just for the security.

Last edited by HillRider; 01-20-10 at 07:58 AM.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 09:25 AM   #3
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,375
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Downtube mounted cable adjusters seem to be going out of fashion these days (aerodynamic reasons?) and are being replaced by inline adjusters (or nothing at all). As Hillrider noted, the new rear derailler will come with an integrated adjuster so you don't technically need an inline adjuster there. For the front derailler, some people get by pulling the cable tight with pliers but I much prefer to use an adjuster. The fine tuning ability and future adjustment ease are well worth the added install time in my opinion though.
joejack951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 11:47 AM   #4
pistolpedro
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thats great thanks gents

Had a search for the inline adjusters they look nice and tidy could fit one of those just behind the seatube where the cable comes up

One more thing the frame is drilled for old style brakes (nut fixing) I would like to fit modern brakes which i believe have a different fixing (allen key?)

Is there a way round this or do the mountings on the frame have to be altered?
pistolpedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 12:22 PM   #5
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Downtube mounted cable adjusters seem to be going out of fashion these days (aerodynamic reasons?) and are being replaced by inline adjusters (or nothing at all).
Since downtube shifters are pretty much obsolete, their mounting bosses aren't being fitted to newer frames. Generally, smaller cable housing stops are now brazed/welded/glued to the headtube or very high on the downtube and many of these have barrel adjusters in them.

One side benefit of this is that the shift cable housing doesn't rub along the headtube and rattle against it and damage the paint.

Quote:
One more thing the frame is drilled for old style brakes (nut fixing) I would like to fit modern brakes which i believe have a different fixing (allen key?)
This is a frequent request from riders modernizing an older frame and a search on this forum should turn up a lot of information.

Briefly, for the front brake you can enlarge the current 6 mm brake bolt hole in the rear face of the fork crown with a 5/16" (or 8 mm) drill bit and it will then accept the recessed nut used with newer brake designs. Drill out the REAR HOLE ONLY!

The rear brake is a little trickier as you can't easily drill out the forward side of the brake bridge as the seattube prevents access so there are a couple of options:

1. Buy two front brakes and use one in the rear. The longer mounting bolt will let you use an external nut like your current brakes.

2. Open up the forward-facing hole in the brake bridge by clamping a 5/16" or 8mm drill bit in a Vise-Grip and rotate the bit a fraction of a turn at a time to enlarge the existing 6 mm hole. This is slow and laborious but it does work. Then you can use a regular rear recessed nut brake.

Be sure you know what brake "reach" you need before buying. Older bikes often came with what are now called "long reach" calipers (47-57 mm measured from the center of the mounting hole to the center of the rim's brake track) while new bikes most often come set up for "short reach" brakes (37-47 mm)/
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 12:43 PM   #6
BCRider
Senior Member
 
BCRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Bikes: Norco (2), Miyata, Canondale, Soma, Redline
Posts: 5,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
....Be sure you know what brake "reach" you need before buying. Older bikes often came with what are now called "long reach" calipers (47-57 mm measured from the center of the mounting hole to the center of the rim's brake track) while new bikes most often come set up for "short reach" brakes (37-47 mm)/
Especially since a lot or most of these old bikes came with 27 inch wheels in addition to having more clearance than todays slim road bike designs. A friend's Crammerotti from the 70's used 27's for example and I've seen more than one oldie in the used racks from back in the day that also had 27's. If you find yourself in the need for the long reach brakes then Tektro has a couple that work great.

And just to add on the drilling of the frame and fork. Once you open them up to 8mm (5/16) the shoulder rim around the head of the screw will still stick out instead of being down flush like with new frames. Don't try to sink this as there isn't enough metal in the fork to allow it and still be strong enough. On the rear brake since the cross tube is typically very thin there it is nice to use a saddle washer on each side that is rounded to match the tube's curvature to spread out the pressure a little and prevent the mounting nut or brake mount face from deforming the tubing with higher torque values pressing on a small line of contact that you'd have otherwise. This is pretty basic but if you haven't dealt with a frame that uses a plain round tube for this mounting point it's worth mentioning.
BCRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-10, 12:51 PM   #7
roberth33tiger 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: El Segundo, Ca.
Bikes: '93 Performance R203, '83 Bianchi 980
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
velo orange carries the nutted version tektros
roberth33tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-10, 08:39 AM   #8
pistolpedro
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks again, plenty to go on now think i'll be changing the bridge on the rear anyway so we can put a modern fitting in there
pistolpedro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:49 AM.