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Old 02-13-10, 12:19 AM   #1
int19
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help! new 12-36 cassette install, freehub binds

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to replace a 9 speed, xtr m970 11-34 cassette on a DT Swiss hub with the new shimano 12-36 cassette. With the 11-34 cassette, all is well, with the 12-36 cassette on there, the freehub doesn't spin when I clamp it in the dropouts. Put the 11-34 back on, all is well again.

I'm fairly certain the new cassette is seated fully on the driveshell, and I've tried both loosening and tightening the new 12t lockring.

Anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks!!! :-)
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Old 02-13-10, 12:50 AM   #2
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Was the cassette intended for use with a washer on the spoke side?
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Old 02-13-10, 12:55 AM   #3
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Hi everyone,

I'm trying to replace a 9 speed, xtr m970 11-34 cassette on a DT Swiss hub with the new shimano 12-36 cassette. With the 11-34 cassette, all is well, with the 12-36 cassette on there, the freehub doesn't spin when I clamp it in the dropouts. Put the 11-34 back on, all is well again.

I'm fairly certain the new cassette is seated fully on the driveshell, and I've tried both loosening and tightening the new 12t lockring.

Anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks!!! :-)
Does the freehub spin when it's not on the bike? If that is the case, is the cassette lockring rubbing on the dropout?
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Old 02-13-10, 01:00 AM   #4
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Was the cassette intended for use with a washer on the spoke side?
I don't think so... it didn't come with one....
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Old 02-13-10, 01:03 AM   #5
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Does the freehub spin when it's not on the bike? If that is the case, is the cassette lockring rubbing on the dropout?
it does spin when not on the bike, however no, nothing is rubbing on the dropout, there's at least a few mm of clearance between the lockring and the dropout face.
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Old 02-13-10, 01:09 AM   #6
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Even just barely tightening the wheel in the dropout produces a very noticeble stick in the freehub. I quadruple checked, at no point does the lockring contact the dropout, there's like 5mm of clearance...
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Old 02-13-10, 01:09 AM   #7
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Even just barely tightening the wheel in the dropout produces a very noticeble stick in the freehub. I quadruple checked, at no point does the lockring contact the dropout, there's like 5mm of clearance...
This is going to sound ******** - is the new cassette 9 speed?
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Old 02-13-10, 01:12 AM   #8
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This is going to sound ******** - is the new cassette 9 speed?
Lol I hope so... Lets see... Yep, both cassettes are 9 speed I've used this 12-36t cassette before, just not on this wheelset.
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Old 02-13-10, 01:25 AM   #9
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Tried the 11t cog and lockring from the xtr cassette on the 12-36... doesn't change the issue.
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Old 02-13-10, 02:01 AM   #10
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Even just barely tightening the wheel in the dropout produces a very noticeble stick in the freehub. I quadruple checked, at no point does the lockring contact the dropout, there's like 5mm of clearance...
And the 12-36 cassette spins freely off the bike while on the hub? Is there something compressing that's pushing the cogs into the spokes?

Definitely something very, very strange going on here...
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Old 02-13-10, 02:16 AM   #11
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By any chance do you have any fender or rack bolts that could be dragging on the lockring?
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Old 02-13-10, 07:20 AM   #12
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We are all guessing. Take some close up pictures of the two set ups.
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Old 02-13-10, 10:10 AM   #13
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check if the rivets on the 12-36 cassette are rubbing on the spokes
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Old 02-13-10, 10:32 AM   #14
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The new 12-36 cassettes were introduced for 29" mountain bikes because of the big wheels' affect on gear inches. We have several new 29er mountain bikes in our shop that are equipped with the new 12-36 cassettes, but I've not yet removed one or installed one, so I don't know if you can put one on a standard freehub body or not. The specs say these cassettes require a special freehub body to use them, because of the extra torque they generate.

EDIT: reading some info in one of our catalogs, the FH-M629 is the hub that Shimano has introduced for these 12-36 cassettes.

Last edited by well biked; 02-13-10 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 02-13-10, 11:35 AM   #15
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Well i'm out of ideas without actually seeing the wheel myself.
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Old 02-13-10, 11:50 AM   #16
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Here's a copy and paste from the QBP catalog regarding the Shimano 12-36 nine speed cassette. Interestingly, it implies that the cassette will fit on a conventional 9-speed Shimano compatible hub, but that perhaps the freehub won't hold up to the extra torque:

"Shimano HG61 9-Speed Cassettes.

FW6005

12-36t 29'er-specific cassettes must be used with either M529 (6-bolt) or M629 (centerlock) hubs, which are designed and manufactured specifically to withstand the extra torque load exerted by the 36t low gear

Use of the 12-36t cassettes with other hubs may result in hub-failure and may void warranty coverage"
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Old 02-13-10, 01:54 PM   #17
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Here's a copy and paste from the QBP catalog regarding the Shimano 12-36 nine speed cassette. Interestingly, it implies that the cassette will fit on a conventional 9-speed Shimano compatible hub, but that perhaps the freehub won't hold up to the extra torque:

"Shimano HG61 9-Speed Cassettes.

FW6005

12-36t 29'er-specific cassettes must be used with either M529 (6-bolt) or M629 (centerlock) hubs, which are designed and manufactured specifically to withstand the extra torque load exerted by the 36t low gear

Use of the 12-36t cassettes with other hubs may result in hub-failure and may void warranty coverage"
Sounds like a gradual failure issue not just a wont work period
+1 for pictures
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Old 02-13-10, 02:16 PM   #18
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Sounds like a gradual failure issue not just a wont work period
+1 for pictures
Wow! thanks for all of the help and questions. I gave up late last night. I'm taking the wheel over to a friend's shop right now, hopefully between the two of us we can figure it out.

Unless I'm hallucinating, nothing except the hub driveshell and the chain is touching the cassette. I'll post some pictures (or the hopefully, the solution) when I get back.
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Old 02-13-10, 03:59 PM   #19
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Success! The lips of the three pins which hold the cassette together were touching the underside lip of the hubshell. A few seconds with the grinder and all is well! Thanks everyone!
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Old 02-13-10, 04:31 PM   #20
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Sounds like a gradual failure issue .....
If the freehub fails due to too much torque, I doubt it will be "gradual." More like instantly. My question is, honestly, how much of a concern is this. I hadn't really thought about it until this thread....Obviously, Shimano is trying to push their hubs, but........Personally, I've got a plenty-low granny gear with the 11-34 on my 29er-
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Old 02-13-10, 07:12 PM   #21
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If the freehub fails due to too much torque, I doubt it will be "gradual." More like instantly. My question is, honestly, how much of a concern is this. I hadn't really thought about it until this thread....Obviously, Shimano is trying to push their hubs, but........Personally, I've got a plenty-low granny gear with the 11-34 on my 29er-
Prehaps I used the wrong word, I was more trying to say, I assume that would not cause it to lockup instantly when on the bike, rather fail during use.
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Old 02-13-10, 08:21 PM   #22
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Success! The lips of the three pins which hold the cassette together were touching the underside lip of the hubshell. A few seconds with the grinder and all is well! Thanks everyone!
Those "pins" (they're actually threaded bolts) can be removed and thrown away. They don't do anything useful except keep the cogs together when you're putting them on the hub.
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Old 02-14-10, 02:17 AM   #23
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Those "pins" (they're actually threaded bolts) can be removed and thrown away. They don't do anything useful except keep the cogs together when you're putting them on the hub.
Really? There wasn't a head on either end of them... how do you remove them?
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Old 02-14-10, 02:18 AM   #24
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Really? There wasn't a head on either end of them... how do you remove them?
Think about it
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Old 02-14-10, 02:40 AM   #25
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If the freehub fails due to too much torque, I doubt it will be "gradual." More like instantly. My question is, honestly, how much of a concern is this. I hadn't really thought about it until this thread....Obviously, Shimano is trying to push their hubs, but........Personally, I've got a plenty-low granny gear with the 11-34 on my 29er-
The 36 brings the gearing in line with 26 inch wheeled bikes and ISO standards deemed that a stronger hub assembly was required to handle the extra torque load.
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