Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-19-04, 09:43 PM   #1
whatamouth
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
need help with new spokes

I want to get new spokes for my front rim its radially spoked and are 14 gauge i believe. I want to put DT revolution spokes on it, my question is will that effect the strength and what tension would i be looking at for the spokes
whatamouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-04, 10:18 PM   #2
supcom
You need a new bike
 
supcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 5,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
According to Jobst Brandt, double taper spokes increase fatigue life by the thinner section stretching to relive the stress in the threads and elbow. However, front wheels usually do not see many spoke failures since there is much less weight on the front wheel than the rear.

A double taper spoke should be weaker than a straight 14 gauge spoke. However, according to Jobst, spokes fail from overstressing at about 3 times the loads that are encountered in normal use. Nearly all spokes fail at the elbow or nipple with a clean break indicating that the spoke has fatigued.

Therefore, a double taper spoke should be more reliable than a straight gauge spoke.
supcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-04, 11:09 PM   #3
LittleGinseng
lurking nightrider
 
LittleGinseng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NE Florida
Bikes: 1987 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Expert, 1987 Maruishi Professional, mid-80's Titan Exklusiv, 1981 Panasonic Sport, 1985 Club Fuji
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
What's the make of your rim? Are you a heavily built rider? Are you looking to save a little weight by switching to butted spokes?

Bullet-proof rims like Mavic Open Pro's or Mavic CXP 33's would benefit greatly by using Revolution spokes. I have a set of each with DT Competition butted spokes (2.0-1.8). Rims with eyelets will also increase the strength of a wheel by preventing the nipple from pulling through the rim. Just remember that a spoke that stretches will put pressure on the rim at the spoke hole and at the hub flange.

Heavier cyclists can really punish a poorly built wheel, causing it to go out of true or to pop a spoke. Wheels with low spoke counts are more susceptible to this type of problem.

If you're looking to save a few grams by moving from 14 gauge spokes to thinner butted spokes, you'll definately like the improvement.

Last edited by LittleGinseng; 08-19-04 at 11:16 PM.
LittleGinseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-04, 05:33 AM   #4
whatamouth
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i weight about 175 what kind of tension i'm i looking at? the rims i have came with a raliegh i bought ..equations? anyone ever heard of them?
whatamouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-04, 06:43 AM   #5
supcom
You need a new bike
 
supcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 5,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't know that there's a magic tension number. Depending on how straight the rim is on it's own, the tension in the spokes may vary quite a bit once the wheel is finally true. I don't use a tensionometer and tighten the spokes until I get a clear tone when they're plucked.
supcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-04, 10:19 PM   #6
froze
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce
Posts: 4,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A radial spoked wheel is not as strong as a typical 3x spoked wheel and using DT Revolutions would be asking for trouble. The original wheel builder used the 14 guage spokes to compensate for radial spoked wheel weakness. However in using 14 guage spokes, the weight saved by using radial pattern was lost as well as the aero advantage of a thinner double butted spoke! The question is, can you rim handle DT Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spoke without reliablity issues; this particular spoke would be stronger then the Revolution yet lighter then the 14 guage. You may want to contact the place that made your wheels to see if you can safetly use double butted spokes on this rim radially laced.

The other option, if your rim can do this, is to lace with DT Revolution as you want but change the lacing pattern to a 3x pattern. This would actually make the wheel lighter and more aero then the current radial laced 14 guage setup, and at the same time make the rim stronger.

And never use a radial laced rim on the rear because the design would reduce the torsional stiffness of the rim and would cause major problems.
froze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-04, 01:26 AM   #7
seely
The Rabbi
 
seely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,088
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Radially laced is absolutely worthless... my radially laced front is out of true ever 200ft and flexes like an olympic weightlifter.
seely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-04, 09:23 AM   #8
supcom
You need a new bike
 
supcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 5,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by froze
A radial spoked wheel is not as strong as a typical 3x spoked wheel and using DT Revolutions would be asking for trouble. The original wheel builder used the 14 guage spokes to compensate for radial spoked wheel weakness. However in using 14 guage spokes, the weight saved by using radial pattern was lost as well as the aero advantage of a thinner double butted spoke! The question is, can you rim handle DT Competition 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spoke without reliablity issues; this particular spoke would be stronger then the Revolution yet lighter then the 14 guage. You may want to contact the place that made your wheels to see if you can safetly use double butted spokes on this rim radially laced.

The other option, if your rim can do this, is to lace with DT Revolution as you want but change the lacing pattern to a 3x pattern. This would actually make the wheel lighter and more aero then the current radial laced 14 guage setup, and at the same time make the rim stronger.

And never use a radial laced rim on the rear because the design would reduce the torsional stiffness of the rim and would cause major problems.
According to Jobst Brandt in his book, a radially laced wheel carries loads just as well as a crossed spoke wheel. However, a radially spoked wheel does not transmit torque well because it has to wind up a long way so should not be used in the rear.

The main caution with radially spoking wheels is that the hub must be designed for the stress. If the hub was not originally laced radially then the may not be enough material around the spoke holes. A crossing pattern pulls more tangentially so there is more material to withstand the force.

Many, if not most, new road bikes use radially spoked wheels without any problems. I have a 20-spoke radial wheel on one bike and has needed little attention in 4000 miles.
supcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-04, 01:12 PM   #9
miamijim
Senior Member
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 13,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Man, you guys are confusing the matter.

Will it affect the strength. NO!!
What tension do you need? A nice ting sound will do. Not a tink a thud...a nice ting.

seely, i have a radila wheel on my mountain bike and its rock solid. want me to rebuild yours?

Has anyone ever seen eyelets pull out of a rim? Happens all the time.

Ex-mechanic with over 2,000 wheel builds.
miamijim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:08 PM.