not2shabbyaggie

I had this posted in Vintage and Classics for identification, but nobody seems to know. Here's what I do know:

-Great build quality and welds.
-Bare metal frame, non-magnetic, no corrosion (what looks like corrosion in the pictures wiped off with a shop rag)
-Seat tube is <1mm thick, welds are <5mm
-I bought it with all mavic components except for Shimano 600 brake calipers, Phil Wood hubs, Matrix IsoC rims, Cinelli stem and bars.
-The only identifying mark on the frame is on the bottom bracket shell -- BT80010
-Probably a custom frame?
-Maybe titanium? Is there a definitive test for this other than putting a grinder to it?

If anybody can fill in the gaps, please do. I'd love to know more about the history of this bike.

Panthers007

Have you tried using a magnet? If it's steel, a magnet will stick to it. Not so with Ti or Al frames. Oh - I see now you did. A test for aluminum that's simple - would require you to put wheels on it. Then push the bottom-bracket with your foot. No springy-feeling? Aluminum.

Torchy McFlux

It's definitely an older (1989?) titanium frame. Could be a Spectrum?
If I were you, I'd try to contact Tom Kellogg or the guys at Seven Cycles to ask them.

HillRider

I agree is't an older frame and most likely Ti. The horizontal dropouts and top mounted rear brake cable housing guides indicate mid to late 80's at the newest to me.

LarDasse74

Are you serious?

This test proves absolutely nothing.

Jusdging by the size of the weld bead I would guess aluminum, but hard to be sure.

ultraman6970

Thats not titanium, thats clearly steel, it has some rust to start with, secondly the dropouts are kind'a campagnolo ones and that shape is not used in Ti niether AL frames, the frame was paint stripped and sand it, u can noticed the scratches of the sanding all around. That thing is steel to me and looks like a bianchi frame to me.

ps: cranks are mavic just in case

Torchy McFlux

He already explained that it's unfinished and non-magnetic, so it's obviously titanium.
The rust is from the hub that was clamped to it, the dropouts would have Campagnolo stamped into them if they were Campagnolo, and that diamond shape was used on early Ti frames.

well biked

My guess is ti most likely and possibly aluminum. As Lardasse74 said, the weld beads look more like aluminum. What's odd is that the welds look like they've been ground smooth around the seat tube cluster, but not at the head tube, or maybe I'm not seeing it right.

Bianchigirll 

as I said in the other post I don't recall seeing a Ti frame with vent holes. that would allow the gas to escape while welding unless it was welded in a booth of sometype. it looks like there is rust ing the venthole

Panthers007

As it's not magnetic, the options are Ti or Al. And an Al frame won't flex to speak of. A Ti frame will have a bit more 'give' - but also snap back faster than steel. Stell flexes, while Ti's strength is in tensile strength. The welds do look like Al to me - but Ti was a new item for frames in the mid - late 1980's. Who knows what they had in mind for a titanium frame back then. They were pretty scarce. How about magnesium?

zzyzx_xyzzy

an AL frame with those skinny tubes would be a limp noodle. moreso magnesium.

Kimmo 

It's pretty nice, whatever it is.

Maybe it's some sort of stainless? That would be cool. I did see something about a stainless tubeset years ago, but the welds look a bit large.

Could we have closeups of the other joints?

Panthers007

In the 1980's - they didn't have the tech of Al frames quite figured out. Magnesium had started to appear - and vanished quickly. So I'd say all these are possibilities. My curiosity has been sparked...

What the heck is that thing??

HillRider

The stainless steels (400-series) used for items requiring good tensil and yield strength rather than the ultimate in corrosion resistance are magnetic.

WNG

Looks like it's Ti.

not2shabbyaggie

Confirmed today with LBS guru that it is Ti. Now, any ideas on how to determine its origins?

bikinfool

Did you try the VRC forum on mtbr?

Jeff Wills

Maybe try the BF Framebuilders forum?

LarDasse74

I think you need to head back to materials class...

An Al frame won't flex? What about an old Vitus?

No metal has any type of damping that will affect its rebound rate. If the stiffness of two springs (supposing we approximate the performance of a frame as a spring) is equal, regardless of material, the acceleration from said springs at any given load will be equal.

The difference in stiffness often attributed to a frame made from one metal or another is always due to the design and construction of the frame - not to the actual type of metal.

ScrubJ

I'm not sure what it is but, it isn't safe to ride. You should send it to me immediately for proper disposal

not2shabbyaggie

Update: I got in touch with Tom Kellogg and he thinks it was probably not made in the US. His first guess was late '80s Panasonic but he said he couldn't be certain. So don't feel bad that we weren't able to identify it because if Tom can't, I'm guessing very few people will be able to. I've contacted the Tokyo Cycling Club to see if they have any riders on old Panasonic Ti.

ScrubJ

Any chance it is one of the Russian Ti bikes that made it here into the States? I've got a riding buddy that has a cool old Russian road bike.

Sonicfish

Whatever it is, it looks nice.

Have fun building it up.

not2shabbyaggie

My guess is that it is not Russian since the characters on the BB shell are not in Cyrillic. That would be pretty sweet though.

HillRider

There were a bunch of Chinese (mainland, not Taiwan) sourced Ti frame sold here around the same time period and they were actually better made (3/2.5 Ti, not CP-grade and had better welds) than the Russian frames. Maybe you lucked into one of them.