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Old 08-21-04, 12:37 PM   #1
100prcnt Marine
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whats the difference between medium cage and long on rear derailer

i'm looking to buy a new rear derailer and ran in-to the option for long or medium cage what the difference and what is recommended for 2003 hardrock pro

thanx
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Old 08-21-04, 12:42 PM   #2
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well from what I been readin seems a med cage covers 28 or 30 teeth
and long cage overs 32 and up
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Old 08-21-04, 01:54 PM   #3
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Shorter the cage=The quicker the shift is going to be. It has noting to relate to what the amount of teeth a cog on cogset has. If it did, me and many others would be in big trouble for using short caged deraillieurs on larger cassettes.
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Old 08-21-04, 02:43 PM   #4
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thanx for the help but it seems my wife wants me to take it to the shop .
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Old 08-21-04, 02:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaRider24
Shorter the cage=The quicker the shift is going to be. It has noting to relate to what the amount of teeth a cog on cogset has. If it did, me and many others would be in big trouble for using short caged deraillieurs on larger cassettes.
Well,the quicker shifting is problematic,and cage length IS. about wrap capacity
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Old 08-21-04, 03:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 100prcnt Marine
i'm looking to buy a new rear derailer and ran in-to the option for long or medium cage what the difference and what is recommended for 2003 hardrock pro

thanx
Cage length is about wrap capacity.For just one expampe, a shimano 9 speed medium wraps 33 teeth and the long wraps 45.
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Old 08-21-04, 03:11 PM   #7
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What I was trying to say that the myth about having to use a long cage on a larger cogset is false. Even with a long cage on a larger cogset, the wrap capacity is about the same as a short cage. The less wrap, the quicker the shift you will get. The difference in between the amount of wrap capacity in a long and short cage is in all actuality insignificant. You still have plenty of chain on the cog for it to work effectively. Since 100percent Marine does about the same kind of riding I do, a major advantage to running a shorter caged deraillieur is that it gives you more clearance when you are in the rough stuff..
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Old 08-21-04, 03:16 PM   #8
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With any 9 speed cogset, you always count everything on the 9th gear the smallest cog in size on the back. Shifting is out of whack get it to the 9th gear on the back and adjust from there. I am also 100% sure there won't be 45 teeth on the smallest cog on the back.
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Old 08-21-04, 03:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24
What .......... a major advantage to running a shorter caged deraillieur is that it gives you more clearance when you are in the rough stuff..
I can buy that part. But if your chainring/cogset has enough teeeth difference to suggest a long cage,and you opt for a short one,then you will likely forego some small cogs when in the small ring.I also know that wrap spec is conservative and you can often get away with more. I also use short cage on all my road triples, even tho the 'book' says you need a long cage.
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Old 08-21-04, 03:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24
With any 9 speed cogset, you always count everything on the 9th gear the smallest cog in size on the back. Shifting is out of whack get it to the 9th gear on the back and adjust from there. I am also 100% sure there won't be 45 teeth on the smallest cog on the back.
What??
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Old 08-21-04, 03:47 PM   #11
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I always thought the cage length was about chain capacity - if you have a triple and a wide range rear the difference in chain length between the extreme combinations is much more than that of a double with a 12-21 cassette. Hence the longer arm and more chain for the former setup.
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Old 08-21-04, 05:24 PM   #12
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well maybe I'm wrong but then how come I havent seen a short or med cage rear derailes rated for 34 teeth but I have for long cage
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Old 08-21-04, 05:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by TechJD
well maybe I'm wrong but then how come I havent seen a short or med cage rear derailes rated for 34 teeth but I have for long cage
You have been checking the wrong references.Try a shimano catalogue.And remember, road derailers regardless of chage length have a smaller large cog capacity than MTB RD.

Last edited by sydney; 08-21-04 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 08-21-04, 05:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by blonde
I always thought the cage length was about chain capacity - if you have a triple and a wide range rear the difference in chain length between the extreme combinations is much more than that of a double with a 12-21 cassette. Hence the longer arm and more chain for the former setup.
That's what wrap capacity is. Stated in teeth. (Large ring - small ring) + (large cog - small cog = how much wrap capacity you need. Stated capacity is also usually conservative,and can be fudged even more by staying out of the smaller cogs when in the granny ring.
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Old 08-21-04, 06:23 PM   #15
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Man, there's a lot of misinformation going on here!

Rear derailleurs have two significant capacities, largest rear cog and chain wrap capacity. They are two entirely different things.

Shimano mountain bike derailleurs are rated for 34 tooth large cogs regardless of cage length. Shimano mountain bike derailleurs are rated for 27 teeth regardless of cage length.

Shimano rear derailleurs, both mountain and road come in two cage lengths. Mountain derailleurs will wrap up either 33 or 45 teeth of chain and road derailleurs will wrap up either 29 or 37 teeth of chain. I can't subjectively feel any difference in shifting crispness due to cage length. I can't see why there would be any difference because the parallelgrams, that do the shifting, are the same.

Campy is a little different. Medium cage Campy derailleurs will handle a slightly larger rear cog as well as wrap up more chain than the comperable short cage version.
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Old 08-21-04, 07:51 PM   #16
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Campy is a little different. Medium cage Campy derailleurs will handle a slightly larger rear cog as well as wrap up more chain than the comperable short cage version.
The campy medium is more in the spec than anything. The short will handle the large 29 just as well in almost every current application.I have some older frames with with a short hanger where that might not be the case.
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Old 08-21-04, 08:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Man, there's a lot of misinformation going on here!

Rear derailleurs have two significant capacities, largest rear cog and chain wrap capacity. They are two entirely different things.

Shimano mountain bike derailleurs are rated for 34 tooth large cogs regardless of cage length. Shimano mountain bike derailleurs are rated for 27 teeth regardless of cage length.

Shimano rear derailleurs, both mountain and road come in two cage lengths. Mountain derailleurs will wrap up either 33 or 45 teeth of chain and road derailleurs will wrap up either 29 or 37 teeth of chain. I can't subjectively feel any difference in shifting crispness due to cage length. I can't see why there would be any difference because the parallelgrams, that do the shifting, are the same.

Campy is a little different. Medium cage Campy derailleurs will handle a slightly larger rear cog as well as wrap up more chain than the comperable short cage version.
Basically I've covered it, but forgot to separate wrap capacity and large rear cog. It's been about 6 months since I had to go through numbers for deraillieur size and all of that, so obviously I was rusty in that area. Usually when I figure out what I like, I won't change and will just get what is needed. The last time I had to go though this stuff was back in December with the switch over to sram. So yes, I screwed someparts up due to rustyness.

Oh and I just looked through one of the books [i[Zinn and The Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance[/i] under the transmition and under section called cable tension adjustment. It says Biggest front smallest rear.(Doesn't have to do with the quoted message.
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Old 08-21-04, 08:22 PM   #18
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ok so you all are say for best resualts I need what a MTB read rerailer on my Road bike ?
rear cassette is 14-17-21-26-32 and Front Chainrings are 52/39
it gives me a nice ratio range from 32 to 100
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Old 08-21-04, 08:40 PM   #19
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No, 100 percent is a mountain biker if I remember and he was asking about the mtb drivetrain.
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Old 08-21-04, 08:49 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24
No, 100 percent is a mountain biker if I remember and he was asking about the mtb drivetrain.
What??
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Old 08-21-04, 08:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24

Oh and I just looked through one of the books [i[Zinn and The Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance[/i] under the transmition and under section called cable tension adjustment. It says Biggest front smallest rear.(Doesn't have to do with the quoted message.
What??
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Old 08-21-04, 08:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TechJD
ok so you all are say for best resualts I need what a MTB read rerailer on my Road bike ?
rear cassette is 14-17-21-26-32 and Front Chainrings are 52/39
it gives me a nice ratio range from 32 to 100
Yeah, a mtb will handle the 32 with no issues and a medium cage will handle all the chain wrap you are dealing with. There use to be old road derailers that would handle 36 and 38 big rear cogs,but they are hard to find and only work with friction.
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Old 08-21-04, 09:25 PM   #23
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Maybee we should actually answer the question he(100 Percent Marine) initially asked what deraillieur size would be recommended, then another came in assuming that the road transmition is the same thing as a mountain bike transmition. The theory is the same but the tech is in completely opposite(Well now with shimano bringing the rapid rise stuff over to mountain from road, which has blurred the lines.) directions. The tech in mtb transmitions has been designed starting at a 38 down to 32. Road bikes go from 32 down if I remember. Eventually it will all be the same. Yes a mtb can handle a 32.

To answer 100%'s question it doesn't really matter, it all depends on how hard you want to pedal.
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Old 08-22-04, 07:44 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24

To answer 100%'s question it doesn't really matter, it all depends on how hard you want to pedal.
I don't think so. If his wrap requirtments dictate a long,then that's what he should get.
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Old 08-22-04, 07:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by KonaRider24
Maybee we should actually answer the question he(100 Percent Marine) initially asked what deraillieur size would be recommended, then another came in assuming that the road transmition is the same thing as a mountain bike transmition. The theory is the same but the tech is in completely opposite(Well now with shimano bringing the rapid rise stuff over to mountain from road, which has blurred the lines.) directions. The tech in mtb transmitions has been designed starting at a 38 down to 32. Road bikes go from 32 down if I remember. Eventually it will all be the same.
What?
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