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  1. #1
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Can these hubs be saved?

    Been dragging my feet but finally got cone wrenches. Rainy day yesterday, so i popped the hubs on my thrift-store bike.

    The bike is a 1994 Specialized Hardrock with (I believe) the original wheels.

    Front hub is a Joy Tech 94A. The easily-removeable cone is scored, everything else is OK (needs new balls of course). Easy match with Wheels Mfg Part CN-R086, available for $6 from Niagara. Bag-o-balls another $3.

    Rear hub not so easy. Freehub says Shimano Alivio Parallax FH-M010 VIA, On this hub the drive-side cone is scored, everything else is OK. (needs new balls of course)

    I cannot find this hub listed on the WheelsMfg site. Niagara sells a "Shimano Alivio cone kit" for $88 which is out of the question.

    Since the scored cone is on the drive side, it is seemingly locked to the axle. I am unable to break it free using a cone wrench and a regular wrench--I haven't exerted real gorilla force because the cone wrench doesn't seem like it could handle a lot without deforming. I don't have access to a vise and don't currently own vise grips, although buying the latter would not be out of the question.

    It sounds to me like this is a job for the lbs. There's one that's been in business at the same location since 1911, so I'm sure they could fix me up. However, when I was young and stupid, they charged me $30 for the very cheapest crankset for this bike. When I got home I found that I could buy the exact same crankset from Niagara for $9.95. I'm not eager to go back to these guys.

    What do you think would be a fair charge for the lbs to remedy the rear hub cone problem and provide the front hub cone? (and balls)

    If it's a lot, I'm thinking I'd probably be better off just slathering on a lot of grease and rebuilding the 2 hubs as is, torqueing them on the loose side, and running the bike as is until stuff comes on sale in Autumn, then replace the wheels.

    What do you think?

    Edit: The rims are ARAYA Japan 26x1.5 HE AP-21. The spokes look galvanized to me, although they could be corroded stainless.
    Last edited by ClarkinHawaii; 03-11-10 at 12:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Depends on how bad the cones are. Balls are cheap and if cones are ruined they can't be ruined again. So try the balls-only trick.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  3. #3
    cab horn
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    God forbid anyone actually tries runs a business for profit. **** those capitalist pigs. $9.95 is not $9.95 shipped.

    1) If your LBS doesn't have that part in stock, they'll have to order it. I doubt they'd order one item just for you, or if they would they'll charge you the shipping.
    2) If you bring the LBS the axle with the cone/locknut it'll probably be $5. But seeing as how you're such a wicked customer of theirs they'll probably charge you nothing.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF View Post
    Depends on how bad the cones are. Balls are cheap and if cones are ruined they can't be ruined again. So try the balls-only trick.

    Done. Thanks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    God forbid anyone actually tries runs a business for profit. **** those capitalist pigs. $9.95 is not $9.95 shipped.

    1) If your LBS doesn't have that part in stock, they'll have to order it. I doubt they'd order one item just for you, or if they would they'll charge you the shipping.
    2) If you bring the LBS the axle with the cone/locknut it'll probably be $5. But seeing as how you're such a wicked customer of theirs they'll probably charge you nothing.
    I called them to check--told me they don't have many parts for old bikes--not enough profit, I guess--no mention of ordering it for me--I asked if they had any used wheels for sale--she said they had one for $8--I assumed it was ok or they wouldn't be selling it--au contraire, the axle of said wheel grinds in the hub a lot worse than mine--sure glad I have an lbs to take care of me!

  6. #6
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    It's an 8 dollar wheel.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    I don't want to sound like I'm maligning all local bike shops --far from it. However the 3 I've been to here in Hawaii have not left me with the feeling that I was glad I found them. I had some good experiences with lbs back on the mainland; and I can tell from the posters on this forum who own/work in lbs that good ones, which I would want to patronize, certainly exist.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Should be able to pick up a hollow axle kit. 10mm thread suits Shimano. You'll have to measure the overall length of the axle.
    The shop I used to work at sold axles with cones, bearings and grease for 10.

  9. #9
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    A new wheelset would run around $100.

  10. #10
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    Many shops order and keep a cone replacement kit from Wheels Manufacturing, and it includes various cones that might be needed to replace cones on various hubs. Often you just bring your old axle and cones in and they can find a close match to the shape and height that will work fine.

    Can you provide alink to the $88 cone kit for Alivio? I just went looking for that and Dura-ace cones are $22 each, so Alivio should be about 1/10th of that price.

  11. #11
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post

    Can you provide alink to the $88 cone kit for Alivio? I just went looking for that and Dura-ace cones are $22 each, so Alivio should be about 1/10th of that price.
    http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=5832

  12. #12
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    For $8 you should assume the wheel requires a rebuild of the hub, probably a tensioning/trueing, and maybe a rim strip. They will assume that either 1) You already know this and feel you are equipped to make those repairs, 2) You're so cheap that they aren't ever going to make money off of you anyways, or 3) You NEED a wheel right now and just don't have they money to do it right. I'm not saying you are cheap, just that you shouldn't expect much. A really ****ty will never be smooth wheel is going to cost you $40 new, so for $8 I'd be surprised if it has an axle and cones.
    As for your current wheel, try replacing the bearings and grease. If you buy the $8 wheel, take it apart, completely degrease it, rebuild it and it might not be too bad. Dry grease has a way of making hubs feel like they're filled with sand.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
    Aha! THat looks like one of the sets designed to be carried by an LBS to sell to customers... there are multiples of ever part you need to rebuild an STX or Alivio hub.

  14. #14
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
    Since the scored cone is on the drive side, it is seemingly locked to the axle. I am unable to break it free using a cone wrench and a regular wrench--I haven't exerted real gorilla force because the cone wrench doesn't seem like it could handle a lot without deforming. I don't have access to a vise and don't currently own vise grips, although buying the latter would not be out of the question.
    It's all about finesse and applying force evenly and in the proper direction. Easiest is to position the cone wrench and regular-wrench about 30-degrees apart and SQUEEZE them together with both hands. Be careful and don't put any fingers between the wrenches as you're squeezing.

    Worse case scenario is to put the axle & cone-wrench on the ground with the other wrench sticking up. Then gently use your body-weight to push down. Again, don't put any fingers between the wrenches.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    It's all about finesse and applying force evenly and in the proper direction. Easiest is to position the cone wrench and regular-wrench about 30-degrees apart and SQUEEZE them together with both hands. Be careful and don't put any fingers between the wrenches as you're squeezing.

    Worse case scenario is to put the axle & cone-wrench on the ground with the other wrench sticking up. Then gently use your body-weight to push down. Again, don't put any fingers between the wrenches.
    Good tips which I will store up for future reference--however in this case I have only the cone locked to the axle--no other nut upon which to apply a wrench. Pipe wrench on the axle would probably work--if i had a pipe wrench--haha.

    Edit--Wait, wait--I'm wrong, I apologize. The axle I was referring to here did have both the cone nut and lock nut locked together on the axle; and this tip probably would have separated them.
    The reason I got confused is, after it was reassembled, I got to thinking that even after the locknut was off, how would I get the cone off the axle, assuming that the cone would be frozen against that area in the middle of the axle where the threads are filed down.
    Last edited by ClarkinHawaii; 03-14-10 at 09:24 AM. Reason: I screwed up

  16. #16
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    You know, you should try rolling the axle on a flat surface with the end with the cone hanging off the end. You might find it's bent and you're wasting your time. Freewheel axles usually are bent in my experience.

    If you have to buy an axle kit you'll get new spacers and locknuts anyway so why bother borrowing a pipe wrench?

    Save the dustcaps, they might not be the same outer diameter but the inner diameter is almost certainly the same.

    If you feel you need more strength, Niagara and Harriscyclery both have solid cromoly axles.

  17. #17
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    Sometimes the smart play it just to hunt up a used wheel.
    Plan B could be to take some sandpaper to the cones and try to smooth out the scores.You can't remove scoring- it would take until the end of time so sand off that much hard steel, but you can kinda' smooth them a bit.Dremel tools with various accessories can help.

    Are the ball bearings actually shot??

    Sometimes just lightly rehabbing-with black wet sandpaper- is better than dumping $$ into cheap items. Some of the dremel accessories can be helpful in this regard.
    Charlie

  18. #18
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
    is better than dumping $$ into cheap items.
    I appreciate all the hot tips but I made the decision to just grease the hell out of them, reassemble as is, and run until they die or I find a pair on sale. They'll probably outlive me anyway.

  19. #19
    The Professor akohekohe's Avatar
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    Clark, I'm assuming you are on O'ahu. You might want to check out the cycle Manoa repair clinic - even though you are not a UH student I doubt if they would decline to help you out if you drop by. Another possibility is Kvibe, they must have tons of old bike parts hanging around and they are pretty friendly.
    The more you drive the less intelligent you are. - Tracy Walter as Miller in Repo Man.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akohekohe View Post
    Clark, I'm assuming you are on O'ahu. You might want to check out the cycle Manoa repair clinic - even though you are not a UH student I doubt if they would decline to help you out if you drop by. Another possibility is Kvibe, they must have tons of old bike parts hanging around and they are pretty friendly.
    Oh, this is great--I've really been hoping to find something like this--Thank you!


    Edit==I'm looking for something like the "bicycle co-op"s that I've read about, where you can use specialty tools without having to pay a fortune to buy them and then use them only once! Anything like that that you know of? Thanks
    Last edited by ClarkinHawaii; 03-13-10 at 11:35 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Please note my apology to DannoXYZ in Post 15 of this thread. He was correct and I was wrong; and there's nothing worse than trying to help somebody with good advice and getting kicked in the teeth.

    He was a gentleman and didn't say a word about it--I just woke up in the middle of the night and realized that I had made this error--Sorry!

  22. #22
    Senior Member ClarkinHawaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garage sale GT View Post



    Save the dustcaps, they might not be the same outer diameter but the inner diameter is almost certainly the same.
    Actually, one of the dustcaps had been badly mangled by the previous owner (or somebody) who tried to pry it up from the outer edge. This was the deciding factor when I realized these just weren't worth saving.

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