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Old 08-26-04, 08:12 PM   #1
cobikeguy
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CO2 pumps

I just purchased a CO2 pump and 3 16g cartridges. Replacement cartridges seem kind of spendy at the bike shop. My question is has anyonone used 12g C02 for BB guns? It seems to me that the cartridges should contain the same presure (much higher than 100 psi) so what the 12g lacks in volume can be made up by using another cartridge. The cartridges for BB guns are much less expensive.

Thanks for the advice.

Greg
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Old 08-26-04, 08:19 PM   #2
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Human-powered pumps are economical, efficient, and environmentally friendly. I recommend the Zefal HP-X or the full-size Blackburn.
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Old 08-26-04, 08:22 PM   #3
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did you read the instructions that came with the inflator to see if it will accept a 12g cartridge? 12g are threaded, 16g are not. If you can take 12g, buy them bulk at walmart and save.

If you pump your tire up part way with a mini pump, you can check the tire seating and make sure the repair isn't leaking. Then use your 12g cartridge to bring the tire to full pressure. Saves half the cost of CO2.
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Old 08-26-04, 08:23 PM   #4
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Old 08-26-04, 08:42 PM   #5
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I have the pump that takes 12g or 16 g, threaded or unthreaded. I went to Walmart after purchasing about half a dozen at the LBS. Someone on the boards told me to go to Walmart, and I got 2 boxes full cheap. I'm still using them a year later. They are lightweight, small to carry, and I use a pump to inflate my tires about 20- 30 psi, then use the cartridge to pump the rest of the way. It works fine. The only caveat is that the air in the tires just don't last as long, so when you get home, be sure to use your floor pump to fill up your tires again. I will usually get home, take the rest of the CO2 air out, and then pump the tire full with air from the floor pump.

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Old 08-27-04, 07:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffee brown
I will usually get home, take the rest of the CO2 air out, and then pump the tire full with air from the floor pump.

Koffee
Take the C02 out? Why?

Also, I have heard that putting nitrogen in your tires brings an advantage - some car tire shops now doing that too. Anyone familiar with that?
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Old 08-29-04, 09:53 PM   #7
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When I bought mine this past week, the wrench a the LBS told me that the CO2 for BB guns has oil in it, that will rot the tube/tire from the inside out. I had just planned on using mine as an emergency pump, so didn't plan on going through too many cartridges.
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Old 08-30-04, 12:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wogdog
When I bought mine this past week, the wrench a the LBS told me that the CO2 for BB guns has oil in it, that will rot the tube/tire from the inside out. I had just planned on using mine as an emergency pump, so didn't plan on going through too many cartridges.
I think your LBS just wants you to buy cartridges from him.
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Old 08-30-04, 04:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by wogdog
When I bought mine this past week, the wrench a the LBS told me that the CO2 for BB guns has oil in it, that will rot the tube/tire from the inside out. I had just planned on using mine as an emergency pump, so didn't plan on going through too many cartridges.
Not true....
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Old 08-30-04, 06:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobikeguy
I just purchased a CO2 pump and 3 16g cartridges. Replacement cartridges seem kind of spendy at the bike shop. My question is has anyonone used 12g C02 for BB guns? It seems to me that the cartridges should contain the same presure (much higher than 100 psi) so what the 12g lacks in volume can be made up by using another cartridge. The cartridges for BB guns are much less expensive.

Thanks for the advice.

Greg
how many flats to you fix a year? i find 16g carts will not break my bike budget, even bought at the LBS since i don't have that many flats :-)
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Old 08-30-04, 07:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by LapDog
Take the C02 out? Why?

Also, I have heard that putting nitrogen in your tires brings an advantage - some car tire shops now doing that too. Anyone familiar with that?
Just because the CO2 leaks out so quickly. Much more quickly than using the air from the pump. So I just empty out my tires anyway (I can lose about 20- 30 psi by the time I get home) and repump my tire full of the good stuff. Then I'm good to go for a few days before I need to repump again.

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Old 08-30-04, 07:19 AM   #12
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http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=4362

That's the pump I got - takes 12 or 16's, threaded or not. I use the 12's from Walmart - seems to put enough air in for me.
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Old 08-30-04, 08:13 AM   #13
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I just bought a Barbieri VisionAir CO2 pump after reading a European magazine review where it was described as a Must Buy super product.
The pump is small (150mm, 175gr) and a combinaison of manual and CO2 pump including a pressure gauge. I just received it last week and am impressed by the built quality.
Nordista has it for $17.95 shipped. I received it 2 days after ordering it.
http://www.nordista.com/BA012VisionAir.htm
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Old 08-30-04, 08:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LapDog
Take the C02 out? Why?

Also, I have heard that putting nitrogen in your tires brings an advantage - some car tire shops now doing that too. Anyone familiar with that?
Yup, I'm familiar with it. Nitrogen doesn't expand as much when heated as "normal" air. Most race cars are very sensitive to small changes in air pressure. So we (they) use nitrogen instead of air to fill the tires to keep the pressures more constant. This greatly helps both straight line (a wheelstanding drag car) and cornering (autocross or dirt track) stability.

As for CO2 leaking out faster, I'm not sure. I suppose it would have something to do with the molecular size differences of the different gasses. I carry both a minipump (Topeak road morph) and CO2 carts. In just about all cases, I grab the pump.
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Old 08-30-04, 09:49 AM   #15
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I don't know why either but when I aired up my tires with CO2, it was down 50 psi in 3 days.
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Old 08-30-04, 09:57 AM   #16
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CO2 is molecularly very small compared to air, so it can more easily permeate the tube.
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Old 08-30-04, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpelpel
I just bought a Barbieri VisionAir CO2 pump after reading a European magazine review where it was described as a Must Buy super product.
The pump is small (150mm, 175gr) and a combinaison of manual and CO2 pump including a pressure gauge. I just received it last week and am impressed by the built quality.
Nordista has it for $17.95 shipped. I received it 2 days after ordering it.
http://www.nordista.com/BA012VisionAir.htm
What magazine reviewed it? I would like to read the review as I am interested in getting this type of system.

I like the idea of a mini pump and co2 combined in one unit to save space, but only if it works.
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Old 08-30-04, 10:24 AM   #18
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Sorry I don't remember the name, I tossed the magazine a couple of weeks ago. All I know it was the July issue of a French magazine. I bought it while I was there in late June/early July. It was not Velo Magazine (I remember that) and they were running reviews of all the bikes used in the TdF in the same issue. Concerning the pump they reviewed about 10 CO2 pumps and the VisionAir came out with the most positive one.
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Old 08-30-04, 10:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpelpel
Sorry I don't remember the name, I tossed the magazine a couple of weeks ago. All I know it was the July issue of a French magazine. I bought it while I was there in late June/early July. It was not Velo Magazine (I remember that) and they were running reviews of all the bikes used in the TdF in the same issue. Concerning the pump they reviewed about 10 CO2 pumps and the VisionAir came out with the most positive one.
10 CO2 pumps? I did not know there were that many CO2 pump units out there. I have only heard of 2 one. THe one you post about about and inovations second wind.
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Old 08-30-04, 11:49 AM   #20
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the wrench a the LBS told me that the CO2 for BB guns has oil in it
Not the ones I use from Wally-World.

I totally see the point in having both systems. If I'm not in a rush, I'd rather patch and pump, but if a group is waiting for me I'd rather swap the tube and gass it with co2. My current system is to only carry co2.

I run 700/20 and find that a Wally-World cartridge gives me about 100psi. Clearly, you'll get less psi if you are using 700/23, perhaps ~90psi.
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Old 08-30-04, 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolo Grubb
I like the idea of a mini pump and co2 combined in one unit to save space, but only if it works.
Me too!
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Old 08-30-04, 12:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolo Grubb
10 CO2 pumps? I did not know there were that many CO2 pump units out there. I have only heard of 2 one. THe one you post about about and inovations second wind.
Sorry the reviews were about CO2 and mini pumps. They had quite a few CO2 units though.
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Old 08-30-04, 12:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpelpel
Sorry the reviews were about CO2 and mini pumps. They had quite a few CO2 units though.

Ah ok


Well since I have a CO2 system and a separate minipump, I am covered. A combined unit would just be a nice to have. Even nicer if it has a gauge on it.

Does the gauge on yours seem to be accurate? and how big is the whole unit? How do you carry it? In the seat bag? Jersey pocket? Have you used it yet to see how well it works?

Your unit is cheaper in cost then the Innovations Second Wind, so I am interested in details
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Old 08-30-04, 01:25 PM   #24
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The gauge seems accurate although it's a bit tough to test as some air gets out once I unplug my floor pump (also with gauge).
I got this pump for the road in case of a flat so the gauge accurary is not too important. I like to have it just to get a rough idea of the pressure to continue a ride and get back home where the pressure will be rechecked with the floor pump.
The size is a bit less than 6" long by 1" 1/4 wide for the tube or 2" 1/4 wide at the valve area. It fits into my saddle bag with a spare tube, 1 16oz cartridge in the pump, 1 extra 16oz cartridge, 1 pair of tire removers with patch kit, 1 multitool, and a pair of rubber cleat covers. And I still have a bit of room to fit my car keys.
The usual retail price is around $25, the Nordista price is the best I have found.
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Old 08-30-04, 05:38 PM   #25
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as for why CO2 leaks faster (if it does... I have no idea) I can assure you it has nothing to do with CO2 being smaller than "air"..... air is a lot of things but lets just narrow it down to the major components of nitrogen gas and oxygen gas.... you might want to look over your chemistry text... CO2 has... well it has oxygen plus that little extra carbon making it bigger than oxygen in "air" (O2).
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