ClarkinHawaii

Old cup and cone bottom bracket
so the ball bearings held in a cage/retainer
Sheldon says replace with loose balls.
don't have any right now, so i need to put the caged bearings back
problem is I've got the axle and the bearing cups and it's not readily apparent which way the bearing cages should be oriented--ie with the cage body inboard or outboard.
Believe it or not, I've assembled it both ways, and I can't perceive a difference.
Surely there's a right way and a wrong way.
Please enlighten me.

corkscrew

AFAIK it depends. If you didn't notice which way they were oriented when they came out there isn't a good way to know.

If it were my bike I'd just go down the the LBS and pick up some ball bearings. Most bottom brackets use 11 1/4" balls per side. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong!).

desconhecido 

It makes a difference. Here's a photo of spindle and bearing set:


Notice the shiny area on the spindle. That's the area of the spindle that you want to make contact with the balls themselves.

Next is a photo with the bearing cage in place backwards -- i.e. it's wrong:



Do you see that? It's impossible for the balls to contact the shiny area of the spindle. It's the cage and not the balls that are contacting the bearing surface on the spindle.

Now, look at the bearing in place the correct way:



See how the balls now run on the shiny area of the spindle, i.e. the bearing surface.

When you put the caged bearings in the cups you'll see that the fit in the cups fine either way. That is, the balls run in the bearing surfaces of the cups either way the cage is installed. But for the spindle, they don't.

FBinNY 

You have to look at the cage carefully and consider which side is accessible to a cone coming from the inside, and which side is accessible to the cup on the outside. If you can't visualize it either make a paper cone and test (it'll become obvious) or put the cage on either the cone or cup (whichever is loose) and look to see if it makes sense.

In many cases typical cages have a solid rim and little claws that curve between the balls. On these the solid rim is towards the cone if it without touching drops into it, and the open claw is to the cup which the balls can roll in between the claws. If the ID of the rim is to small for the cone to clear then it goes the other way, like the one in the photos above.

I hope that helps.

If still unsure assemble the parts in your hand, spin one and listen. If the cage is reversed it'll scrape and you'll hear it.

rumrunn6

good grief ... titles like this on days when I'm in a mood like this ...

ClarkinHawaii

Now this was perfect--AFTER I tried clicking on the pictures to get larger ones!!! Thanks

ClarkinHawaii

Hey, all you who helped--THANK YOU!!!

desconhecido 

guess that's a feature of the forums and the way I uploaded the pictures. Perhaps if you link to the photos rather than upload them they show up full size right away, I don't know. Anyway, I'm glad you got to see the idea I was trying to convey. It's really pretty simple, once you experiment a little.

ClarkinHawaii

You need to always remain cognizant of the orientation of your balls.

ClarkinHawaii

The bottom line--I guess it really is not a standard thing--the only way I knew absolutely for sure was by observing that assembled with the cage bodies inboard and then screwed down tight I had 4 threads showing on the cup (where the lockring attaches).

Assembled the other way, with the cage bodies outboard and then screwed down tight I had 8 threads showing. So in the olrientation with eight threads showing the cage (retainer) was getting in the way which it shouldn't do, erego:

whichever orientation allows you to screw more of the cup into the bottom bracket shell is the correct orientation. (feel free to quote me on this)

Thanks, All!

Kimmo 

I dunno how this isn't obvious. You should be able to tell just by looking at the shape of things.

Also, if you stick the spindle in against a caged ball set that's in the wrong way round, it feels crap. Just turn the spindle to check; you can feel the difference easily.

onbike 1939

Perhaps, but it's a mistake that beginners make regularly. I always tell them to look at the spindle and see that it in fact a cone, with the larger part of the cone towards the middle. Now the cage also has a larger and a smaller diameter, so match the larger diameter of the cage with the larger diameter of the spindle.

This never works of course.

FBinNY 

Kimmo, you give too much credit to your fellow man. The operative word here is "should" and you're right, but don't underestimate the creativeness of fools. I once had someone come into the shop saying his wheel wasn't spinning well. Opened it up and the cone was on backwards! go figure.

Anyway, remember that nothing is foolproof, because fools are too ingenious.

sooprvylyn

You can also remove the bearings from the cage and use them as you would loose balls, not very hard to do. The cages arent needed.

BTW-If you want to continue to service your own parts PAY ATTENTION WHEN YOU TAKE SOMETHING APART SO YOU KNOW HOW TO PUT IT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN!!!

Kimmo 

o_o

rumrunn6

u got that ass backwards