SilenceSeeker

When I first saw disc brakes on a bicycle, I wondered how the spokes would respond to a hub that wants to stop and a rim that wants to go. I have ridden with Shimano M565 wheels and XT wheels and on both of them, the spokes make a lot of noise during braking. There are clicks and creaks and clanks which make me want to abort braking rather than stopping in a public place. With my M565 wheels, I used an elimination process to find where the noise was coming from. I tried different pads, different rotors, a different fork and even a different caliper. If I pull the brake lever so the pads lock onto the rotor, then rock the bike backward and forward, I hear the noise. It's possible to see the rim moving in relation to the stationery hub, and somewhere in between is the unbearable noise. I have, of course, done a lot of work on the spoke tension of the wheel. I even tried greasing every single spoke nipple. No success.
Is this simply what Shimano wheels do? Does anyone have a similar problem or a solution?

TheDoty

Have you tried applying a bit of lube to the points where the spokes cross? Those can be under quite a bit of tension and get quite dry.

operator

Rebuild the wheel, with new spokes, with proper lubrication. Note shimano recommends an explicit lacing pattern for front/rear wheels.

dabac

No principally different than how the spokes reacts to a hub that wants to go and a rim that wants to stop - the same thing that drive wheels have always been seeing.
Braking can be a bit more forceful(particularly on the front), but OTOH brake impulses are nowhere near as frequent as drive impulses.

Last pair of wheels I built for myself, putting a lot of effort into the build also have a tendency to click. Not as much under braking, but certainly under honking.
No apparent reason, but looking at the spokes they have quickly developed quite impressive fret marks where they cross.
I'm running the opposite of Shimano's recommended lace pattern, so for me that is a theory. I assume yours would have the factory recommendations, so it's not the explanation in your case.

I kinda doubt that. The natural way to do that would be to straddle the bike, and then rock the bike. You have a semi-stationary observer, the fork flexing, the tire deforming, maybe a little headset play. It'd be really hard to reliable be able to pick out which parts that are moving WRT to each other in that mess.
Besides, spokes just aren't that flexy. The wheel would have to have entirely marginal spoke tension before a change in position between hub/rim would be visible to the naked eye under those forces.

No idea, haven't ridden enough of them in stock configuration to be able to tell.

I don't see it as much of a problem, but I have made a similar observation.

Sorry, no.

DMF 

Incorrect.

There is no torsional moment on the hub with a rim brake. The hub simply sees a change in the (linear) force vector, moving from down (6 o'clock) toward forward (9 o'clock) with some increase in magnitude. When braking, the opposing torsional moments are at the rim and tire.

With a hub brake the torsional moment must be transmitted through the hub and spokes to oppose that of the tire (i.e. inertia). This is a ubiquitous but poorly understood issue with bicycle disk brakes.

Don't doubt it. It happens.

dabac

But the OP was referring to disc brakes. And for a disc brake(or any hub braked wheel) wheel the stresses on the spokes will be very similar to those experienced by a drive wheel.

I'm not saying stuff don't move, I'm saying that hub vs rim movement is insignificant compared to fork flex, headset play, and above all, the interrelated movement of the observer who's also an integral part of the system.

How much do you think the hub would need to move before a human, with poorly defined reference points would be able to spot it? my bet is that we're talking about several mm. And have you any idea about the force required to elongate a whole bunch of spokes enough for the hub to shift about several mm? And that force would come from a human simply standing over the bike, rocking it against the brake?

DMF 

Sorry, I read your reply as comparing to rim brakes; don't know why. Maybe a recent controversy on the Wikipedia article was fresh in my mind...

Hub movement would seem to depend on the lacing pattern. On some patterns (e.g. radial) the hub would move a lot. But if the pattern is what Shimano put on the wheel, you have a good point.

SilenceSeeker

Thanks everyone for the responses. It does seem pretty unlikely that the hub is moving in relation to the rim, but it sure does look like it. I'm not sure how much spokes can be tightened before they snap or pull the rim apart, so maybe my wheels are just put togeher too loosely.