Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Simplex/Suntour/Shimano Pulley Wheel compatibility

    This question has been asked elsewhere before but I am still not sure of the answer. I am trying to replace a broken 10-tooth pulley from Simplex (off an old Peugeot bike). It's rather similar to Suntour from an old Schwinn. I know I have no problem using the Suntour in place of Simplex but then the Schwinn is without a pulley. Since both Simplex and Suntour are difficult to find nowadays, is there a cheap $5 Shimano pulley that can take its place? The pulley measures 1 cm in thickness, about 4 cm in diameter and it's hub is 6 mm. I do not need the bolt. Also, it does not have to be an exact match since friction shifter is a bit more tolerant than index shifter, I think. Thanks for your help.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,537
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    For older non-index derailleurs it doesn't matter what you pulleys you use as long as the width and hole diameter match. if you scout around you shouldn't have any problem finding a generic pulley to fit.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Trying to order the pulley online. Does anyknow the approximate dimension of a generic 10-tooth Shimano pulley wheel, anything close to 1 cm thick and 4 cm diameter?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,537
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yes on both counts. These are pretty standardized using a 5mm bolt. The thickness is in the 1cm range, but may vary since they've gotten slightly thinner as chains did for 7, 8 and 9s. You can check by measuring across the inside of your RD cage. The thickness isn't critical but affects the length of the screw needed. Worst case scenario you'll need longer 5mm screws to assemble the cage.

    Here's an example of one that will probably fit.
    Last edited by FBinNY; 07-11-10 at 11:36 AM.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,505
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You can pay way too much for original replacements-

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-Simplex-Dera...item483aad0a2d

    or you can pay way less for a huge upgrade-

    http://www.velo-orange.com/vogrcrusebeu.html

    The Simplex pulleys are probably 35-40 years and they will crack just like yours did. They cracked when they were new and they're more brittle now.
    I've used Suntour pulleys on Simplex. They work fine. My favorite replacement is Bullseye:


  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Found out Simplex and Suntour both have 6 mm centers but Shimano has 5 mm. Drilling the metal plates bigger is not a problem but drilling the metal center piece maybe slightly more involved. Don't know if that's hardened metal, probably not.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the link but not sure if I can replace 10-tooth with 11-tooth and even though the link say it is Simplex compatible, I think the metal center is probably 5 mm rather than the needed 6 mm as well.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,505
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So you think it's a lie? If Chris says it will fit, it will. He has lots of experience with Simplex derailers since he's into French style bikes. The metal center is way oversize. The adapters shown make it fit the bolt.

    If you have a plastic Simplex Prestige, it's not worth repairing. Replace it with something decent like a Simplex SX610 or any Suntour.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,537
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Before buying new pulleys, why don't you simply remove the lower pulley bolt and measure it. That'll tell you what you'll need to know before buying a replacement. I suspect you'll find it a 5x.8mm screw so any plastic on bushing pulley will work. Whether it's 10 or 11t won't make a difference.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Shimano metal hub is 5 mm. Simplex and Suntour metal hubs are 6 mm. The bolts on Simplex and Suntour are also close to 6 mm.

  11. #11
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,735
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1 to Dirtdrop. If it's Simplex (or French), take his word for it.

    Either get the Velo-Orange pulleys or dig up a set of 6mm Suntour pulleys and use those. Forget about the Shimanos.

    -Kurt

  12. #12
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    RainCouver, BC
    My Bikes
    old Peugeot,
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Same problem: "Simplex (off an old Peugeot bike)" broken pulley

    Quote Originally Posted by mtdiablo View Post
    This question has been asked elsewhere before but I am still not sure of the answer. I am trying to replace a broken 10-tooth pulley from Simplex (off an old Peugeot bike). It's rather similar to Suntour from an old Schwinn. I know I have no problem using the Suntour in place of Simplex but then the Schwinn is without a pulley. Since both Simplex and Suntour are difficult to find nowadays, is there a cheap $5 Shimano pulley that can take its place? The pulley measures 1 cm in thickness, about 4 cm in diameter and it's hub is 6 mm. I do not need the bolt. Also, it does not have to be an exact match since friction shifter is a bit more tolerant than index shifter, I think. Thanks for your help.
    I need help too!
    Did you find a suitable replacement for the pulley set? And, where?

    My ride has been a gorgeus old timer. Even though a have a much improved bike - I don't want to abandon the old girl yet.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Drakonchik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    732
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Or just buy a cheap 1970s Suntour derailleur off eBay.

  14. #14
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    My Bikes
    Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Most of us won't know who "dirtdrop" or "chris" are, so can't tell who these replies were aimed at or referred to.

    As for the Simplex pullies, they all have a 6mm bore.
    Simplex, Suntour, Ofmega/Gipiemme (both made by Simplex btw), and a select few old Shimano derailers use the 6mm bolt size, while almost all Shimano and Campagnolo pullies are for 5mm bolts these days.

    Someone mentioned drilling out the cage plates, but this will require a nut which may foul the spokes (and the Simplex bolts and holes are already the bigger size)!

    I don't like Simplex pulleys because they are so prone to brittle failure.

    I don't like Suntour pullies because their very large sleeve diameter multiplies rotating friction.

    Huret ball-bearing pullies (with metal centers and plastic-covered teeth) are very durable, are 6mm, and are even adjustable.

    I get 10-tooth ball bearing pullies off of Ebay, which have alloy cover-plate/bushings that are plugged into oversized thin bearings.
    This allows the bushing holes to be easily reamed to any size, up to 8mm or so! The width of these pullies is pretty modern, i.e. a little narrower than Simplex, but worked well here (with just a washer added under each bolt head) as I used narrow chain after drilling the pulley's alloy cover plates out to 6mm:

    Last edited by dddd; 04-04-13 at 09:08 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,505
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I used to be Dirtdrop. This is a very old thread resurrected by a newbie. It happens a lot.

  16. #16
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,842
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    as long as the width and hole diameter match.
    Not even! It doesn't matter a damn if the bushing has a larger hole than necessary (because moving the centre of the pulley 2mm in any direction will almost certainly not result in fouling the chain), and if it's too narrow it can simply be shimmed with washers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    This is a very old thread resurrected by a newbie.
    Dammit, I need to start looking at the dates before I reply.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i am baffled by the fact that VO doesn't supply simplex compatible pulleys...

    isn't it their exact market ?

  18. #18
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    My Bikes
    Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bloom87 View Post
    i am baffled by the fact that VO doesn't supply simplex compatible pulleys...

    isn't it their exact market ?
    I'm not too sure about that, at this point most people are using newer derailers than Simplex or Suntour, so the market is pretty limited for a 6mm pully.
    But, since they could just buy the ones I got, in large quantities to minimise the shipping costs from China, they might as well just stock them in a basic silver and black.
    There is still the problem of getting the right thickness of pully to the customer, so might be best for them to supply exact-replacement parts only, and leave the reaming and bolt-shimming to the serious tinkerers.

    The best solution is to do what Suntour did, supplying their replacement ball-bearing pullies with a 6mm bore and with a 5mm reducer sleeve that is removeable. Those were the best pullies ever, imo, and also fit Simplex, Campy and even many Huret derailers perfectly.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just read this thread and I am still a little confused. I have this Simplex derailleur. Which pulleys should I buy? Some links / sources?



    Hope this isn't considered a necrobump ...

  20. #20
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    My Bikes
    Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    You'll need pulleys with a 6mm hole in them for any Simplex derailer.

    Simplex, Huret, Suntour come to mind as possible 6mm donors.

    And remember Campag is 5mm when hunting for your vintage pullies.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dddd View Post
    You'll need pulleys with a 6mm hole in them for any Simplex derailer.

    Simplex, Huret, Suntour come to mind as possible 6mm donors.

    And remember Campag is 5mm when hunting for your vintage pullies.
    Any known good online sources? I see that NOS ones are no good. What's everyone using?
    I saw VO mentioned up above, but theirs sounds like a 5mm one (since they mention Shimano).
    Last edited by gregaz; 05-14-13 at 08:54 AM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaz View Post
    Any known good online sources? I see that NOS ones are no good. What's everyone using?
    I saw VO mentioned up above, but theirs sounds like a 5mm one (since they mention Shimano).
    Noone? Where do you guys get your stuff (other than old Suntour DR at the coop)?

  23. #23
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    My Bikes
    Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaz View Post
    Noone? Where do you guys get your stuff (other than old Suntour DR at the coop)?
    I've bought Huret ball-bearing pullies from Ebay, and also get them from swap-meet Huret derailers.

    Ebay vendors in China sell alloy 10t pullies. The ones you want have large-diameter bearing cartridges in them, with alloy hub centers fitted to adapt down to the 5mm bolt hole. These can be drilled out to 6mm, as I did here:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •