Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-05-10, 01:59 PM   #1
lumpynose
Member
Thread Starter
 
lumpynose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Concord, California
Bikes: Trek, Motobecane
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
shifters are "backwards"?

I bought the Mercier Galaxy from Bikes Direct; the web site says that it comes with Shimano 8-speed STI shifters. (Is STI the model name or simply some generic term for the type of shifters?)

On the shifters they say Shimano Sora Flight Deck. They don't have a visual indicator to tell you what gear you're in.

My other bike, a Trek, which also has Shimano Sora shifters, but they have a visual indicator. With those shifters, pushing the brake lever sideways shifts to larger gears, closer to the spokes, and pushing the little thumb lever shifts to the smaller gears, away from the spokes.

But with the Mercier Galaxy it's the opposite; the thumb lever shifts to larger gears and the brake lever shifts to smaller gears. Has anyone else seen this; is this normal?
lumpynose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:12 PM   #2
Bikewer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some derailleurs are set up this way, with the spring pulling towards the lower (larger cogs) gears. I forget what these are called, or what the supposed advantage is, but they are not uncommon.
Bikewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:16 PM   #3
clydeosaur
Senior Member
 
clydeosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central PA
Bikes: Cannondale Six5, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR & old Hard Rock
Posts: 611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had an older (02 maybe??) Trek 1000 w/ Sora on it. No shift indicators & the thumb button shifted (dropped the gear)to the next smaller sprocket as well. The brake lever shifted in to the next largest. I can't imagine putting the strain of retracting or climbing the derailleur on those little thumb bars.
clydeosaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:22 PM   #4
CACycling
Senior Member
 
CACycling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oxnard, CA
Bikes: '08 Fuji Roubaix RC; '07 Schwinn Le Tour GS; '92 Diamond Back Ascent EX
Posts: 4,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
With high-normal derailers, the derailer spring moves the chain to larger cogs and the shift lever pulls it to smaller cogs. There is no additional strain on the thumb lever as it is just releasing tension like it would on low-normal derailers.
CACycling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:31 PM   #5
lumpynose
Member
Thread Starter
 
lumpynose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Concord, California
Bikes: Trek, Motobecane
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bikewer and CACycling got it; pushing the brake lever sideways is increasing the cable tension, but it's moving the derailleur in the opposite direction from the way it works on my Trek. It never occurred to me that things could be different like that. It will definitely be confusing having two bikes with different shifting behavior. I will also miss the visual display of the gear I'm in. But I bought the Mercier intentionally as a "budget" bike so I'm not complaining.

Thanks for the responses.
lumpynose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:35 PM   #6
rhenning
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Shimano called this "rapid rise" and it is another case of Shimano inventing something that was not needed or wanted but was used as a sales tool. Roger
rhenning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 02:44 PM   #7
desertdork
just pokin' along
 
desertdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: the desert
Bikes:
Posts: 1,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
With LOW-normal derailers, the derailer spring moves the chain to larger cogs and the shift lever pulls it to smaller cogs. There is no additional strain on the thumb lever as it is just releasing tension like it would on HIGH-normal derailers.
Fixed. You had it backwards.
desertdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 03:02 PM   #8
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,834
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 221 Post(s)
I wish the high normal front derailleur was still made and in a decent quality,
having the cable pull the cage towards the
low gear was a boon for late down shifters on a climb.
then spring would pull both front and rear into the highest ratio.
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 03:34 PM   #9
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Posts: 22,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
STI = Shimano Total Intergration. what that mean is that starting in about 1990 shimano started to do everything they could to ensure bike makers had to use complete shimano 'kits' on a bike.

they mounted the MTB shifters on the brake levers, so you could not have shimano shiftin and Dia Compe brakes.

they also lightened the sring in the road calipers (this was also part of SLR) and put a spring in the brake lever to return the lever to the starting point and pull the cable back. rather than rely on the caliper spring to this. result shimano calipers did not work as well with a non SLR or STI brake lever.

for the road STI/SLR finally morphed into the integrated shifter/brakelever AKA "Brifter"
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 03:38 PM   #10
CACycling
Senior Member
 
CACycling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oxnard, CA
Bikes: '08 Fuji Roubaix RC; '07 Schwinn Le Tour GS; '92 Diamond Back Ascent EX
Posts: 4,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdork View Post
Fixed. You had it backwards.
Thanks. I do that a lot.

I assume it is only the rear that shifts this way (haven't seen FDs like this lately). If that is the case, swapping out the RD with a standard one would be pretty cheap and a lot less confusing. Sell the old RD to offset the cost.
CACycling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 11:29 PM   #11
lumpynose
Member
Thread Starter
 
lumpynose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Concord, California
Bikes: Trek, Motobecane
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
I assume it is only the rear that shifts this way (haven't seen FDs like this lately). If that is the case, swapping out the RD with a standard one would be pretty cheap and a lot less confusing. Sell the old RD to offset the cost.
If I remember correctly the front one is similar; pushing sideways on the brake lever shifts shifts "backwards" to how it is on my other bike. But I like your suggestion of changing the derailleur(s).
lumpynose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-10, 11:49 PM   #12
bjoerges
LBS Employee/Commuter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Bikes: 2007 Trek Soho, 2010 Gary Fisher Monona w/ Xtracycle FreeRadical, 198X Facet BioTour 2000
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Summary:

STI = Shimano Total Integration, a product design of integrating brakes and shifters into a single pod or brifter

In a traditional (Also called: High-Normal, Bottom-Normal) rear derailleur, a movement of the Sora brifter's thumb release would decrease cable tension and move the chain to a smaller rear cog. A movement of the brake lever arm would increase tension and move the chain to a larger rear cog.

In a Low-Normal (also called Top-Normal) RD, the thumb release would decrease cable tension and move the chain to a larger rear cog. Moving the lever arm would increase tension and move the chain to a smaller rear cog.

For the follow up question about the front, it takes a lot of torque to move a chain from a small chainring to a big one, so all front derailleurs would move to the larger ring when cable tension was increased by moving the lever arm.
bjoerges is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:32 AM.