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Old 08-06-10, 03:49 PM   #1
RFC
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Advice please re 8-speed Dura Ace Brifters

Hi all. Thanks for the help.

I have installed several sets of 9 and 8 speed Ultegra brifters without a problem.

I just picked up a Land Shark with full 8-speed Dura Ace. All of the components appear to be in working order. However, I can't seem to get sufficient throw out of the FD brifter to move the chain between chainrings.

Am I missing something about adjustment or dealing with a wornout brifter?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

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Old 08-06-10, 04:19 PM   #2
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Adjust the hi/lo stops on the FD.
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Old 08-06-10, 04:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs cycles View Post
Adjust the hi/lo stops on the FD.
I've done that. There is sufficient play in the FD.
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Old 08-06-10, 04:40 PM   #4
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Possibly another amateur question, but when in the inner chainring, is there any slack in the cable?

The pawls in the shifter may be gummed up, try the ol' WD-40 trick.
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Old 08-06-10, 04:51 PM   #5
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DA are 9 speed .. the Ultegra were the 8 speed ,
but you are talking about the front.
once you have the low gear limit screw set, and the lever down , take out all the cable slack.
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Old 08-06-10, 06:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
DA are 9 speed .. the Ultegra were the 8 speed ,
but you are talking about the front.
once you have the low gear limit screw set, and the lever down , take out all the cable slack.
Interesting about DA 9. But, the RD brifter does just fine moving the chain across the 8 speed cassette.

I have done as you suggested re the low gear limit screw. The problem is that, when moving to the large chainring, the first push on the lever gives me a little movement but not enough. Likewise, when moving to the small ring, there is not sufficient movement to move the chain.

Worst comes to worst, I have a set of Ultegra 8 brifters I can use, but I'd like to make the DA work.
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Old 08-06-10, 06:20 PM   #7
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Your shifter probably is 'zeroed' or your not adjusting the cable slack as recommended in the literature.

1. Disconnect the cable from the FD.
2. Pull hard on the cable with 1 hand while shifter the STI lever with the other.
3. There should be 2 clicks in each direction.
3a. Shifting from the small ring to big the first click is for 'trimming' the FD.
3b. Shifting from the big ring to the small ring the first click is to trim the FD.
4. Pull hard and make sure the lever really is in low gear.
5. Adjust adjusting barrel so the inner meatl part is flush with the outer platic part. You must have an adkjusting barrel or it will never properly adjust.
6. Re-attach cable.
7. Shift into the bi ring in the front and the big cog in the back. YES. big/big
8. 'Trim' FD by click the STI lever once
9. Adjust barrel adjuster so that there's .5mm clearnace between the FD and chain.

This should get you started:

http://www.birota.ru/manuals/shimano...e/6JA0A_EN.PDF
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830621239.PDF
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Old 08-06-10, 06:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
DA are 9 speed .. the Ultegra were the 8 speed.
Wrong. DA 8s was introduced in the late 80's with 8s STI levers to shortly follow thereafter around 1991.
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Old 08-06-10, 06:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
DA are 9 speed .. the Ultegra were the 8 speed ,
but you are talking about the front.
once you have the low gear limit screw set, and the lever down , take out all the cable slack.
DA came in 8-sp and 9-sp and 10-sp and 11-sp.

"Ultegra" began with 9-sp, though many consider the 8-sp model (600 tricolor) to be 600 Ultegra.

It sounds like the L brifter was not "zeroed out" when you loaded the cable. It's a commonly overlooked issue, even with experienced wrenches (you get busy, you are in a hurry, and doo doo happens....)

1-Run the small L brifter lever "in" a few times. Try to pull on the L cable while you do so.
2-Pull the L brake lever down, and look to see if the cable end is easily seen and would come right out if you pushed the cable backwards.

No matter what you see, do this:
3-Remove the chain from the FD. sometimes you just unscrew the back of the FD and slip it out.
4-Remove the cable from the FD and let it sit loose.
5-Pull the L STI housing away from the L brifter.
6-Pull the L brake lever, and try to push the L shifter cable back out of the brifter, so you can get a grip on the end. If you can't, it was inserted before the shifter was all the way down. Even if you can, it's better to start from scratch.

7-Pull out the cable.
8-With the cable out, keep shifting the L small lever "in" until it won't click. Then shift the big lever "in" the same way.
9-Repeat about 10 times, minimum. You should get good play. The 8-sp DA and 8-sp 600/Ultegra should both act smoothly.
10-Now, shift the L small lever "in" until it won't shift any more.
11-Pull down on the brake lever, and look into the cable feed hole from the outside. You should get a clear shot at re-feeding the cable.
12-Re-feed the cable, route it through the housing, stops, under the BB and up towards the FD.
13-STOP. "Zero out" the small L lever again. You need to make sure when you feed and clamp that cable, it's all the way released.
14-With the chain off the front rings (usually resting on the BB), do your adjustments on the FD. No chain, no cable connected.
15-Re-attach the cable to the FD. Before you tighten it, make sure, again, the small L lever is zeroed out. Can't be too sure.
16-Tighten the cable. Ease the chain back into the FD.
17-Nine of ten times, you hit that L big shifter now, three times, and you'll throw the chain over the outside of the big ring. That's good.
Adjust the FD and ride.

I honestly don't know what else to do. I've seen lots of L brifters with the cable inserted and tightened before it was zeroed down.

Worst case scenario, the cable bends and kinks inside the brifter.
Send it to cudak888 and he'll use the big wrench on it.

Bad cases make it almost impossible to push the cable back out, and you may have to cut it off and work out the end piece.

Mild cases let you push it out, with almost no clearance. These are more common.

Always better to take the extra 5 minutes and go from scratch. Shortcut the cable, shortcircuit the shifting.

Same thing happens to R brifters all the time. Sometimes the brifters are zeroed out, but not fully, and they ease back a click while you're finger-doodling the cable, derailleur, etc. Always stop and make sure the shifter is zeroed out, with full cable extension.


Upon review, Jim beat me to it.

PS: It's a great way to pick up a set of "non-working" 8-sp STI's for cheap. The seller is often very frustrated and glad to part with them. I always offer to fix them, then buy them if I can't. 8-sp STI's are simply limited in what's generally wrong: a) gunk b) cable insertion as above c) return spring not seated. Most of the time, you fix those, you're good.
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Old 08-06-10, 07:10 PM   #10
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Jim and Robbie, many thanks.
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Old 08-06-10, 08:21 PM   #11
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I recommend the shifter and derailleur setup instructions found at www.parktool.com.
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Old 08-07-10, 01:31 AM   #12
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Interestingly, you could get Campy 11 speed brake/shift levers. The ratios are almost the exact same as the rear derailler of Dura-Ace 8. If you don't mind having 3 extra clicks at the end of the cogset (since Campy is 11 speeds, and you have DA8), then it would work beautifully with what you have.
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Old 08-07-10, 04:48 AM   #13
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Interestingly, you could get Campy 11 speed brake/shift levers. The ratios are almost the exact same as the rear derailler of Dura-Ace 8. If you don't mind having 3 extra clicks at the end of the cogset (since Campy is 11 speeds, and you have DA8), then it would work beautifully with what you have.
Even more interesting is Campy 10 have the EXACT cable pull as Shimano 8. So Campy 11 w/old DA rd using Hubdub attachment or Campy 10 using a non early DA shimano rd. http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
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Old 08-07-10, 08:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fred Smedley View Post
Even more interesting is Campy 10 have the EXACT cable pull as Shimano 8. So Campy 11 w/old DA rd using Hubdub attachment or Campy 10 using a non early DA shimano rd. http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946


Good find Fred! The link you posted to is awesome and a great read for anyone that has an old DA8 rear derailler or anyone that wants to mix & match different brands shifters & deraillers.

I think you may be right on that one. The link you posted shows that Campy 10 levers have the exact same cable pull (2.8mm) as all Shimano 8 STI levers. So, a Campy 10 lever would work perfectly w/ a DA8 rear derailler, even better than a Campy 11 lever when mated to a DA8 rear derailler. I am not sure if we can trust that chart though for DA8. I could be wrong, but I thought that DA8 STI levers had a different cable pull than the other Shimano STI levers (ie, Ultegra, 105). Any other website to confirm? Or anyone know if there a way to measure this on our own?
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