Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    wheel laces differences? is one stronger than the other?

    im looking to build a 32 spoke wheel. and cant decide if i want a 2 cross or 3 cross lacing..are there differences? is the 3 cross stronger than the 2 cross? or is it all just looks? why do people sometimes to a 2 cross in the front and a 3 cross on the rear?

  2. #2
    I'm Carbon Curious 531phile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Earthquake Central
    My Bikes
    Enough
    Posts
    2,195
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The more crosses. The more stronger the wheel. 3 is stronger than 2. Front wheels take less abuse than rear wheels.

  3. #3
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    The 'Wack, BC, Canada
    My Bikes
    Norco (2), Miyata, Canondale, Soma, Redline
    Posts
    5,432
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Radial and lower cross counts have the advantage of shorter spokes. A bit less metal overall and you have that much lighter a wheel in the end. This is carried to the extreme when building a rear wheel with 2 or 3 cross on the drive side and radial on the other.

    The front does not have to withstand forces generated at the hub on a rim brake bike so it can get away with fewer crossings or even a radial pattern. However the rear has to conduct the drive forces out to the rim so a spoke pattern that produces as near to a tengential path for the spoke from the hub is going to produce the least load change in the spoke. For small flange hubs this typically means 2 or 3 cross. For large flange hubs 3 and 4 cross. This assumes typical spoke counts of 28 to 36. Drop to 16 to 24 spokes and the ideal tangential path may only result in one or two crossings.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thanks for all the info, im going to go with a 3 cross on front and rear, since im heavier that most riders, just to be safe.

  5. #5
    AEO
    AEO is offline
    Senior Member AEO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
    My Bikes
    Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
    Posts
    12,245
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 531phile View Post
    The more crosses. The more stronger the wheel. 3 is stronger than 2. Front wheels take less abuse than rear wheels.
    this is not entirely true.

    It's all about the exit angle of the spoke from the hub and there's no point in going over 90 degrees.
    for instance a 20h wheel will be weaker if you lace it 3x compared to 2x because the spokes can't exit the hub properly.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    this is not entirely true.

    It's all about the exit angle of the spoke from the hub and there's no point in going over 90 degrees.
    for instance a 20h wheel will be weaker if you lace it 3x compared to 2x because the spokes can't exit the hub properly.
    what about a 32?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
    Posts
    25,599
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dooodstevenn View Post
    what about a 32?
    A 32 spoke wheel is at its strongest with a 3X lacing pattern. You really can't get to 4X until you have a 36 spoke wheel.

    AEO's point was that for low spoke count wheels reducing the number of crosses works best. But again, 32 spokes are best with a 3X pattern.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    A 32 spoke wheel is at its strongest with a 3X lacing pattern. You really can't get to 4X until you have a 36 spoke wheel.

    AEO's point was that for low spoke count wheels reducing the number of crosses works best. But again, 32 spokes are best with a 3X pattern.
    oh okay, thanks

  9. #9
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Austin
    My Bikes
    Too many to count
    Posts
    2,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    interesting. Is there a formula to figure out how many crosses will generate a 90 degree angle when the spoke exits the hub?
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    boston, ma
    Posts
    2,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    spocalc lists an ideal crossing

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Willy, VIC
    Posts
    598
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    interesting. Is there a formula to figure out how many crosses will generate a 90 degree angle when the spoke exits the hub?
    I use: (360 *4 * (crosses -1)/holes) - asin (ERD - flange diameter)

  12. #12
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    664
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If the spokes first cross is pulling past the spoke next to it , the likelihood of it pulling thru the flange is pretty remote,
    as the flange is in compression between 2 spokes..
    Not in shear forces wanting to pull to the edge.
    I've built 4 cross 36,40, and 5 cross 48 spoke wheels,
    3 cross in 32 is good in the same regards.

    a skilled wheelbuilder can make 32 spoke wheels strong in either pattern, seems like the Pros pull out the 3x32 DB spoke hard anodized box section tubular rims
    for Paris- Roubaix,
    unless they have a wheel sponsor with something to prove for the marketing campaign.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-08-10 at 09:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado
    My Bikes
    Gunnar, Surly
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As an experiment I once built a 4x on a Shimano XT rear hub. This required the head down spokes to touch the head of the adjacent spoke as they went from the hub to the rim. The end result is that after a while spokes tended to break where right at this point of contact. Moral to the story: make sure the sweep of the spoke doesn't require it to touch the head of an adjacent spoke. Or, more succinctly, stick with three cross and you'll be fine.

    I've built two cross front wheels and rear wheels with three cross on the drive side and two cross on the non-drive that have all held up well (a couple of these wheels are now over 10 years old and still fine!). But if you think about it, the weight you save with a two cross, which is roughly equal to half a spoke on a 32 spoke wheel, is all at the hub. You use a shorter spoke, which means that you use a hole in the hub that is one spot closer to the rim. Well, since weight on a wheel becomes a greater factor as distance from the axle centerline increases (in other words, with increasing radius), this weight savings isn't doing much good. Going two cross on a rear wheel would sacrifice strength while getting almost nothing in return.

    So the OP's decision to go three cross seems like a wise choice to me.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •