daven1986

Hi,

Looking to build up some lightweight but strong wheels and would like some advice on which rims and spokes to go for. As far as I can see there isn't much variation in weight between rims! I have heard of lightweight 32 spoke wheels which sound good to me (32 spokes ought to be strong enough).

I want to be able to put 23mm and 35mm tyres on, so I'm guessing it is 15c width (although slightly too narrow for 35mm according to sheldon, i'm guessing it should be ok - won't be very high pressure - just for studded tyres).

Spokes I was thinking some double / triple butted spokes.

Hubs - I am building a fixed gear on a surly steamroller frame, not sure how much difference hubs make to the weight, but I'm guessing quality goes a long way here in terms of how often they need repacking etc.

Any tips are appreciated,

Thanks

Daven

FBinNY 

I ride tubulars so I'm not super familiar with current wired-on rim offerings, but there are lots to choose from. As a point of reference I weigh 195#s and use 305gram rims built with 2.0/1.5 double butted spokes for the front and left side, and 2.0/1.7 for the right side rear. Using the heavier spoke on the right rear helps compensate for the effects of higher tension.

My wheels hold up very well to normal wear and tear, rarely needing even a minor touch up, lasting almost forever. My number one cause of failure is hitting unseen deep water filled potholes at high speed, which dents the rims beyond salvage.

AEO

fixed gear hubs are boat anchors compared to road hubs.

MACK hubs are about the lightest track hubs you can get. https://www.mackhubs.com/
A front road hub is a better idea than a track hub as they are lighter. If money is no object then go for an american classic micro 58. If money is limited, then you can go for novatec hubs from bdop, road front, track rear.

For clincher rims, depending on your weight, you can go for kinlin XR-200 (390g) or XR-270 (445g) rims.
XR-200 are really only recommended for riders under 130lbs, and even then you want it in 28h front and 32h rear, minimum.
There's no way to beat a tubular rim in terms of weight.


Skip aluminum nipples, they might be light, but they're prone to failure and you really only want them on race day wheels.
For spokes, use DT aerolites. Or if you're constrained for money, then go for DT super comp TB spokes that have a slight penalty in weight over DT comp in 1.8/1.6mm, but are stronger at the elbow.


It's best if you tell us your weight.
It's fine to run 35mm tires on a 14mm rim.

If you're really light, like 130lbs, then you can use 20f/24r with the XR-270 rims, but it's actually lighter to go with XR-200 rims with more spokes.

daven1986

I weigh around 140lbs, not including bike / bags.

Thanks for the really useful information, I forgot to mention that I will be running a disc brake on the front, so I'm guessing a MTB hub will work best for that. I will search around for some lighter rims then seeing as they are definitely out there - I suppose I was looking in the wrong places! Will probably go for the DT super comp spokes. Looking at the hubs the novatec hubs look to be available in the UK and therefore probably a good choice - also easier on the wallet!

Thanks for the help

Daven

fietsbob

Mavic open Pro rim, is well spoken of..
if you lace to your wheels around the same symmetrical Track/single speed hub

they would be strong thru not being dished, symmetrical bracing angles.

Of course the Skill and attention to detail of the person doing the building matters.

want more gear ratios on your steamroller , consider an internal gear rear hub,
still a dishless strong structure.

compromises are made to get that stack of cogs in there,
shallow bracing angle, higher tension, on the right than the left side,

Batavus

I recently buit a wheelset with Kinlin XR-300 rims (30 mm high/deep and about 460 gms a piece). A Novatec high flange rear track hub (relatively light due to hollow axle) and a novatec low flange road front.

I used CN Mac bladed spokes (easier to monitor spoke twist). Of course you would need a slightly heavier disk front hub, but the set I built came in at 1580 gms, 32/28 spoke count.

Avoid the XR-200 because they really are flimsy if you're a heavier rider or have a high power output and you mash a lot.

I bought the XR-300 rims (although not branded as such they definately are the same) at a discount at this shop, seeing as you are in the UK:

https://cnc-bike.de/product_info.php?...9c48321bd19bb3

I also bought both hubs and the bladed spokes there. They will calculate spoke length for you if you specify hub and rim. I'm sure you can find a lightweight disk front there as well.

In fact, here it is: https://cnc-bike.de/product_info.php?...9c48321bd19bb3

BCRider

There's any number of rims that are under 450 gms and enough that are down around 400 to make looking for them worthwhile. Meanwhile note that most deep section aero rims are a lot heavier. For a bike that is ridden for long distances at speed with no interruptions the aero rims do help. But for in town stopn'go riding you'll benifit from finding the smaller section rims in the 400'ish gram area. Again for in town day to day wheels stick with the stuff that is solid. As mentioned that means brass nipples and double butted spokes that are not on the hair edge. The difference between spokes that will be solid and those on the hairly light edge for durability will only cost you a couple of grams per wheel.

Since you're using a heavier disc hub up front I don't see the big deal about finding the very lightest , and therefore expensive, track hub that money can buy for the rear. By all means get something with a good rep for being durable but there's little point in a boutique hub if you have the MTB brake hub up front. Unless it's a nicely polished XTR or some carbon'y cross country race hub then that would be different.

mrrabbit 

Don't worry about hubs that are a few ounces heavier than most - performance-wise - it's the circumferential weight that matters.

Origin8 and OEM, Suzue Pro Max, Chosen A3633/A3735 (Halo), White Industries Eccentric, Phil Wood...been happy with them all...


(I'd avoid the Formula, Novatec, Dimension, All City, Raleigh, Godspeed and other OEM copies of the same - those are thread strip happy and axle snap happy.)


32 Hole
Mavic CXP-33
DT Swiss 2.0/1.8/2.0 or Ritchey Logic 2.0/1.7/2.0 or DT/Wheelsmith Equivalent
14mm Brass or Alloy Nipples

Tension front to around 103 kgf
Tension rear up to around 107 kgf

=8-)

AEO

You don't weight that much and if you're going for disc brake front, you can use a carbon rim of your choice.

If I had to choose between Mavic open pro, CXP-33 and XR-300, I'd go for the CXP-33 as they are sturdier rims thanks to the eyelets. They all have similar weights.
stay away from velocity aerohead rims, they may be light, but the sidewall is very suspect.
Basically, any aluminum clincher rim that's under 430g should be used with higher spoke counts or avoided all together for riders over 130lbs.

daven1986

batavus - really appreciate the links, thanks
the cxp-33 rims look pretty decent - good price too!

i think i have enough to be going on - off to do lots of research! thanks for all the input

Mike T.

That's weird. What am I doing wrong? I've used nothing but aluminum nipples, for the past 15 years, on all my bikes - mountain, road, dirt road and track. Never a failure, never a race. That's been nine sets of wheels.

achoo

You might also want to look at DT Swiss RR-415 rims. I have a set on my road bike, and I like them more than the CXP33s on my commuter. When braking, I can feel when the rim joint on the CXP33 goes under the pads. Not so on the RR-415s.

mrrabbit 

Typically the use of the word "never" needs a little clarification or qualification with details.


=8-)

Fred Smedley

I guess I am all screwed up also as I have yet to have a issue with my AL nipples.

Mike T.

Merriam-Webster online dictionary definition - Never: not ever: at no time.

Personal finding - I ain't never broke no alum nipple in lotsa use. A break didn't happen. Lemme think how else I can word that for better clarification. BRB.

mrrabbit 

Okay...I'll part with being nice and all...


I call bull.


=8-)

Mike T.

Ok ya caught me lyin' thru my teeth. I'm busted. Arrgghh. You're tough to deal with.

toytech

I have never broken any aluminum nipples either, and no brass ones since I was a kid on bmx bikes. I have been riding for more than 30 years. I think build quality and proper tension are much more important than nipple material choice.
Besides aluminum nipples come in cool colors just make sure they are lubed so so they don't oxidize themselves to the spokes.
I must be doing it wrong too

AEO

I think y'all are treating your wheels like babies.
either that or your wheels are all prebuilt from the factory, like ksyriums.

mrrabbit 

That's exactly the kind of qualifiers and clarifications I was suggesting were needed from Mike T.....but he chose to get smart instead.

So he came across as someone with an emotional investment that needed to be put on a pedestal and defended at all cost via a "never" statement.

Bottom line is:

Aluminum is a material - aluminum nipples are an application of such material.

And like anything material and application-wise - it has it pluses and minus. Great low weight and lovely cotton candy colors, higher tendency for breakage, seizing and susceptibility to chlorine and salts.

Keep the nipples liberally lubed and free and true frequently - you stave off seizure. Avoid use with super stiff rims such as Velocity B43s and triple-wall MTB rims, you reduce the incidence of breakage. Keep 'em out of the pool storage room - they'll probably stick around...instead of literally dissolving.

I actually do like them - there are just times where I don't think they are needed - or will amount to more trouble than it is worth.

I do prefer DT Swiss alloy nipples - they just to seem to be able to take a little more tension and abuse before warping or stripping. Helps alot when working with straight 14g spokes in my experience.

Nice to meet you toytech...first time I've seen you...

=8-)

toytech

Nice to meet you toytech...first time I've seen you...

=8-)[/QUOTE]
I lurk mostly since I am a car mechanic rather than a bike mechanic, we have our own "take this as gospel cause we have always done it this way" stuff too. I always wore through my rims long before breaking a spoke. I have taco'd and flat spotted a few too. I would agree that aluminum nipples do need more care and have there own drawbacks, I just think they might not be as dramatic under normal use. plus I like the cool colors

Al1943

I've used DT Swiss aluminum alloy nipples on all wheel builds over the last 12 years. No failures.

mrrabbit 

Uh huh....clarifications/qualifiers coming in 3.....2......1......


=8-)

noglider 

Is there a chart somewhere with weights of the various rims? I'm disappointed with how heavy many of them are. I seem to manage on light rims.

FBinNY 

I don't know about any chart, but most manufacturers publish the weights of their offerings. You're right that rims seem to have gotten heavier over the years. It's a shame because most riders using classic builds can and would do well with lighter rims.

The trend to heavier rims owes to various factors.

1- movement to more aero profiles which require deeper sections
2- machined sidewalls, which require more material to cover variations in manufacturing
3- lower spoke counts, which require greater rigidity
4- more variation in tire cross sections and inflation pressure, which require greater safety margins in the strength of the rim flanges.

For those of us who still ride tubulars, there are still nice light rims being made by folks like Ambrosio in Italy. Users of wired-on tires can also get reasonably light rims if they shop around, it's just a bit harder.

BTW- I have a large hoard of light rims, both 700c and tubular. More than I could ever use in my lifetime, and I'll gladly sell a few if anyone's interested.