Cutting and rethreading spokes half way down existing threading?
08-26-10, 06:32 AM
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Cutting and rethreading spokes half way down existing threading?
Is this advisable? Is there any way for the tool to smoothly add to the existing threading without creating a mismatched thread interface that would cause cross threading of the nipple? I'm asking as I mismeasured the ERD of a Chinese carbon rim and ordered spokes 4mm to long which would entail cutting the spokes about half way through the threading.
08-26-10, 07:25 AM
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Is this advisable? Is there any way for the tool to smoothly add to the existing threading without creating a mismatched thread interface that would cause cross threading of the nipple? I'm asking as I mismeasured the ERD of a Chinese carbon rim and ordered spokes 4mm to long which would entail cutting the spokes about half way through the threading.
Spoke threads must be rolled, not cut. See your LBS for assistance. It will only be marginally cheaper to have them re-threaded than to just buy new spokes if your spokes are straight gauge.
08-26-10, 08:07 AM
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As said above, you need a thread rolling device, not a die because rolled threads are bigger than the 2mm blank they're rolled on. The process doesn't remove material, but flows material from the valleys to form the peaks with the original diameter at mid-line.
Whatever thread roller you use will pick up the lead of the original thread, so the extension will match. The machines aren't cheap, a home mechanic version like the Hozan is over $150, and a shop tool like the Phil Wood over $2,000.
For only one wheel, I'd ask an LBS if they have a Phil machine what they'd charge for cutting and threading yours, vs. buying the right size straight out. BTW- if you bought these mail order, don't mention it, no sense in rubbing their noses in it.
Whatever thread roller you use will pick up the lead of the original thread, so the extension will match. The machines aren't cheap, a home mechanic version like the Hozan is over $150, and a shop tool like the Phil Wood over $2,000.
For only one wheel, I'd ask an LBS if they have a Phil machine what they'd charge for cutting and threading yours, vs. buying the right size straight out. BTW- if you bought these mail order, don't mention it, no sense in rubbing their noses in it.
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08-26-10, 08:29 AM
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you can't buy spokes in the size you need?
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08-26-10, 08:43 AM
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The phil machine is not going to 'match' the threads. It's simply going to mash right over the 4mm of original threads after you've cut it to length. Not recommended. Can't speak for the hozan.
08-26-10, 08:47 AM
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That's too common-sensical. Anyway returning may not be an option. Ultimately, the OP may learn that cutting is just about as costly as buying fresh, depending on his relationship with a good shop, but no harm in checking before deciding.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 08-26-10 at 08:54 AM.
08-26-10, 08:49 AM
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NB the threads are rolled.. the time it would take per spoke to get the rolling die lined up
with the existing thread is going to add up to an hour.. 2? .. if not more...
with the existing thread is going to add up to an hour.. 2? .. if not more...
08-26-10, 08:51 AM
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The Hozan will always match the thread because it starts from the end, picks up the lead and extends the thread. The Phil rolls 10mm of thread in a single pass, and has no positive way of ensuring that the lead is picked up, though having used one for 20+ years, I can say that it'll pick up the lead 99% of the time or better if you use decent touch.
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08-26-10, 09:20 AM
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1. With straight guage - not a problem.
2. With double butted - only if you are going to finish within the end butt...most with gradual butting will allow about 5mm cut down and rolling safely. Some with long shanked butting will allow about 15mm cut down and rolling.
Some caveats...
1. 99% of the time the Phil Wood, Morizumi, Kowa and other cut and thread rolling machines will pick up the existing threads and just add the new threads. Once in a rare while - misalignment and mashing will occur. Having a spare spoke around as a just-in-case is not a bad idea.
2. Try not to cut and roll less than 2mm off the ends of threaded or non-thread spokes - those teeny tiny chips can make their way into the lifter and flipper areas of the Phil Wood spoke machine if not brushed away - especially if the body is removed or adjusted. (It's a non-issue with the Morizumi and Kowa)
=8-)
2. With double butted - only if you are going to finish within the end butt...most with gradual butting will allow about 5mm cut down and rolling safely. Some with long shanked butting will allow about 15mm cut down and rolling.
Some caveats...
1. 99% of the time the Phil Wood, Morizumi, Kowa and other cut and thread rolling machines will pick up the existing threads and just add the new threads. Once in a rare while - misalignment and mashing will occur. Having a spare spoke around as a just-in-case is not a bad idea.
2. Try not to cut and roll less than 2mm off the ends of threaded or non-thread spokes - those teeny tiny chips can make their way into the lifter and flipper areas of the Phil Wood spoke machine if not brushed away - especially if the body is removed or adjusted. (It's a non-issue with the Morizumi and Kowa)
=8-)
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5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
08-27-10, 09:39 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I ended up bringing my DT Aerolites (purchased on Ebay for a song) into my LBS and they cut and rerolled them. I built up the wheels last night with no issues. None of the spoke threading was misaligned or mashed. It only took about 5 minutes and cost $10 which I think is a pretty good deal.
