Aquakitty

Hey guys I need to buy a bunch of parts so at the same time I am buying spokes for my Alfine wheel builds.

After research I figure I should go with a 2x pattern which ends in needing some pretty small spokes.

I have calculated left 238.2 and right 237.4 .. however I can't find anywhere that carries DB spokes in this size, at least for a reasonable price. Even Wheelbuilder.com does not have any DB spokes lower than 241 mm.

I can get single butted or straight gauge but from reading these would not be a good choice for a disc touring wheel. Help?

mrrabbit 

Why 2X? Why won't 3X work?

=8-)

Aquakitty

I don't know, just from reading a good number of posts about it people say 3x is too many crosses for the big flange of the alfine and 2x is better. I am a wheel build newb so just going by what I have read.

I was considering these spokes which come in 238 and should be ok, but they are not double butted..

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=12628

mrrabbit 

Might want to consider single butted 2.3/2.0 (13g/14g) spokes...tighter fit of the heads and elbows with a reduction in spoke weight after departed the hub flange and inch later.

=8-)

AEO

if you go the single butted route, I'm quite sure you can just buy some long DB spokes and have someone with a spoke cutter shorten them.

ultraman6970

u can ask custom sizing at bike tools etc.

Dan Burkhart 

Yeah, that has always been a problem. I've gotten 238mm DB Sapim spokes direct from Rohloff USA in the past, but there is no more Rohloff USA.
The last couple of gearhub builds I've done that required 238 and 236mm spokes, I settled for a cheaper brand spoke just so I could get the length I needed in 14/15/14 g.
The spoke brand is Primo, and so far, they are holding up well. I'm using them on my cargo bike with a Rohloff hub, hauling lots of weight, and no spoke breaking issues yet in 2+ years of use.
Just yesterday when I was out riding, I ran into a guy that I rebuilt a wheel for with them.
He has an Alfine hub, the original wheel was build 3X with 32 spokes, and he had no end of spoke breakage issues. I rebuilt the wheel 2X with DB Primo spokes earlier this season, and so far, they are holding up well. He's a big heavy guy too, as am I.
I also used them on another Rohloff wheel for an aggressive off road rider, and again, no issues.
Your LBS should be able to get the Primo spokes from Lambert.
Normally, I prefer to stick with the premium brand spokes, but my experience so far with the Primo brand has been excellent.

Bianchigirll 

what size wheel are you building? there isn't a set of prebuilt wheels to match you needs? buying DB spokes and having them cut seems like a dumb and expensive idea to me. if this is a touring bike I really don't see that the weight difference between straight and DB would be a big issue

fietsbob

Order them from the LBS or elsewhere , they sell in Boxes of 50, my local has 2 prices take the whole box is less

then You have the leftover ones, rather than them ..

I've got 30 year old wheels with straight gage spokes, that are still fine ..

The quest for perfect may be the enemy of the practical in this case..

mrrabbit 

Single butted can be ordered just about any length - and can be cut and rolled in just about any length.

Not quite the case with double-butted - especially on the cut and roll side of things.

=8-)

mrrabbit 

Buying double-butted spokes in 5-10mm increments is not a bad idea. While at first it seems expensive when modifying with a spoke machine - you are getting flexibility when building wheels from stock...especially leftover stock.

I import 298mm and 268mm for double butted. Most of my basic 700cs are in the 292mm-297mm range and most of my 26" are in the 262mm-267mm range. Next time around I'll probably import some 292mm to cover 700c 25mm aero rims in the 286mm-289mm range.

And I only charge customers .15 apiece to cut and roll their spokes - .10 apiece if they do it themselves. .20 and .15 for powder coat.

=8-)

Aquakitty

If I bought prebuilt I would have to take apart the back wheel for the alfine and put in the custom spokes anyways unless I got them cut I suppose.... I didn't think that was an option for some reason, bleh then I would have more hassle. I agree with the dumb and expensive idea, I think I will just buy the 238's on Chain Reaction and see what happens.

If I get in trouble I will drop the wheel at my LBS, but the point is I want to build it myself

mrrabbit 

The flange holes are drilled for 13g (2.34mm) heads....matching that at the spoke head/elbow helps reduce the likelihood of breakage at that point.

=8-)

Aquakitty

Ok... so does this mean the spoke is in the middle of the two sizes, so 2mm is too small?

i am a bit more confused now . You think I should do 3x with 13g heads instead?

mrrabbit 

2X using 2.3/2.0 (13g/14g) single butted spokes.

That's what I use when building these size hubs with 13g holes in 2X - 2X reduces the angle entering the nipple - the 13g head and elbow makes for a tighter fit in the hub flange holes. Result is a reduction in the likelihood of spoke breakage at both ends assuming the tension is right up where it belongs.

=8-)

Jeff Wills

Universal Cycles lists DT double-butted down to 183mm:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...0&category=197
including 236 and 238mm . Are they not available in Canada, eh?

Aquakitty

I forgot to mention I am looking for black spokes.

Aquakitty

Ok I can go with these for a reasonable price https://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/sa...ted-spoke.html

Would you suggest 12mm or 14mm nipples?

Thanks for all your help.

mrrabbit 

If the rim is a deep section aero rim with a sleeved joint - might need 14mm nipples. (Velocity DeepV and Mavic CXP-33s are an example...) If your spoke length aims for the screw driver flat of the nipple - they'll work.

However if you were using an ERD that aims for the top of the nipple - they won't work.

=8-)

12mm nipples allow a couple threads past the top of the nipple. 14mm don't. Less overhead for errors in calculation.

Jeff Wills

Bleahh. Black spokes just show dirt more. :-)

Another source I've used is Icycles, but they show DT Competitions in black down to 244mm: https://store.icyclesusa.com/competition-c2613.aspx
You may be SOL.

Aquakitty

Ok, I think i am going to have to agree with your opinion, forcibly... hehe... I just viewed the wheelbuilder shipping prices, they want more than the cost of the spokes to ship 36 spoks to me? What the dickens ... back to square one. I think I will have to just go silver.

Jeff Wills

Meh. If I hadn't already used up my trips across the border, I'd pick some up from Universal (they're about a mile from my work) and smuggle 'em across for you. I go to great lengths to promote diversity in wheelbuilding. :-P

Aquakitty

No worries, I found the jackpot over on Cambria bike, cheap black double butted spokes of the correct size and cheap shipping. Yippe!

https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=92149

zzyzx_xyzzy

another option would be danscomp.com, they stock Sapim DB spokes and they're a BMX shop so they would have short ones. Cheap too.

lord_athlon

Primo is a good choice.