Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-03-10, 09:47 AM   #1
tatfiend 
Gear Hub fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A New Bicycle Transmission

http://tinyurl.com/244pbqe

Reported on in the German magazine "Der Spiegel". 18 speed BB transmission with a 635% overall range and a weight only slightly more than an IGH.
__________________
Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/
tatfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 10:51 AM   #2
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,121
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Very interesting adaption of what appears to be motorcycle transmission technology. I think Honda used a similar type of transmission in the bottom bracket of it's sponsored downhill MTB racers a few years ago but never commercialized it or licensed it to any bicycle component maker. They were also very secretive about it's details.

This new design does weigh 2.5 kg so that will be a drawback for the general market. For DH racing, the Honda's extra weight wasn't a handicap but would be for any other type of riding. The NuVinci CVT is the same weight as this thing and the Rohloff 14-speed IGH is a bit lighter. It will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere commercially or dies the death of most "revolutionary" bicycle transmissions.

The translation of the Der Spiegel article was interesting reading in it's own right. It certainly wasn't done by either a native English speaker or a knowledgeable bicycle enthusiast.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 11:03 AM   #3
tatfiend 
Gear Hub fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
HillRider;

Automated computer done translation and they all leave much to be desired in my experience. Better than nothing though if you do not speak the language.

As far as downhill bottom bracket transmissions go SR Suntour also did one that was in the 11 pound range as did a German company. I have the first generation NuVinci CVT hub on one bike and it is close to 9 pounds weight. The new N360 NuVinci is similar in claimed weight to the Pinion transmission.
__________________
Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/
tatfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 11:11 AM   #4
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,205
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
Frame builders have adopted the R'off as a Jack shaft in several designs , and frame mounted it , to make suspended wheels more compliant over rough ground..

But that bit of gear won't make up for the Osaka company getting all the OEM business

any more than Mercedes Benz will get to take over the Toyota sales figure.
they occupy different market niches ..

But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.

Last edited by fietsbob; 09-03-10 at 11:20 AM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 11:20 AM   #5
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,121
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
HillRider;

Automated computer done translation and they all leave much to be desired in my experience. Better than nothing though if you do not speak the language.
Yeah, that does explain the odd choice of terms. I remember hearing about one of the very early computerized translation programs that was set up to translate English to Russian and vice versa. As a test, the programmers gave it the English phrase "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." In Russian it came out "The whiskey is good but the meat is rotten."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
As far as downhill bottom bracket transmissions go SR Suntour also did one that was in the 11 pound range as did a German company. I have the first generation NuVinci CVT hub on one bike and it is close to 9 pounds weight. The new N360 NuVinci is similar in claimed weight to the Pinion transmission.
I do remember the first NuVinci CVT weighting over 4kg but when I just looked at their web site they are claiming about 2400 grams for the newest version.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 11:45 AM   #6
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 6,060
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Interesting, but to a habitual retro-fitter such as myself, it does not look like much of a threat to the good old gearhub.
If memory serves, I think it was the Honda geared bottom bracket that actually housed a full set of chain driven cogs and derailleurs. It was a big ungainly box, fun to look at but not much use for anything but downhill.
__________________
Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


WANTED: Dead or broken gearhubs for failure analysis.

Like the shop
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 11:57 AM   #7
Hydrated
Reeks of aged cotton duck
 
Hydrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Bikes: 2008 Kogswell PR mkII, 1976 Raleigh Professional, 1996 Serotta Atlanta, 1984 Trek 520, 1979 Raleigh Comp GS, 1995 Trek 950, 1979 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
Read... and ponder... my signature line. Orwell wasn't right about very many things, but he got that right.
Hydrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 02:11 PM   #8
tatfiend 
Gear Hub fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Yeah, that does explain the odd choice of terms. I remember hearing about one of the very early computerized translation programs that was set up to translate English to Russian and vice versa. As a test, the programmers gave it the English phrase "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." In Russian it came out "The whiskey is good but the meat is rotten."
The other version I read was a translation to Russian and then back to English. The input phrase was "Out of sight, out of mind". It came back as "invisible, insane".
__________________
Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/
tatfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 03:51 PM   #9
Cross Creek
Senior Member
 
Cross Creek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Bikes: 2013 Rivendell Sam, 1996 Bianchi Milano, 1994 Trek 820
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Those Russian translations may be closer to the mark than they first appear, especially the first one!
CC
Cross Creek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 06:44 PM   #10
tatfiend 
Gear Hub fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Bikes: Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
Posts: 2,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
Interesting, but to a habitual retro-fitter such as myself, it does not look like much of a threat to the good old gearhub.
If memory serves, I think it was the Honda geared bottom bracket that actually housed a full set of chain driven cogs and derailleurs. It was a big ungainly box, fun to look at but not much use for anything but downhill.
Agreed 100%. The Rohloff succeeded in the market place, even with its high price, in large part because it was something retrofittable to the vast majority of existing bike frames. In fact Rohloff made versions, and accessories, to make it fit as many frame configurations as possible. This made a enthusiast and retail bike shop market for it that will not be available to the Pinion BB transmission. The same for the NuVinci hub and the new Shimano Alfine 11 speed when it hits the market.

Adoption by bike manufacturers may also be discouraged by the fact that it is a single source item as compared to an IGH or standard derailleur drivetrain. No backup exists for fitting to frames made to accommodate the Pinion transmission if the manufacturer has problems of any sort.
__________________
Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/
tatfiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-10, 06:53 PM   #11
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,121
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
Along with Hydrated's sig line, consider this one too:

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-10, 06:01 PM   #12
ScrubJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vero Beach FL
Bikes:
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Frame builders have adopted the R'off as a Jack shaft in several designs , and frame mounted it , to make suspended wheels more compliant over rough ground..

But that bit of gear won't make up for the Osaka company getting all the OEM business

any more than Mercedes Benz will get to take over the Toyota sales figure.
they occupy different market niches ..

But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
Um, this added to the thread how???

I sure that there are no weapons engineers in Germany, they farm all their design out to the US right?
ScrubJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-10, 07:38 PM   #13
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,205
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1142 Post(s)
There is a method to use the Rohloff by fitting a 4 bolt chainring,
instead of the brake disc, it shares that bolt pattern.
hub is built in the frame then, not in the hub ..
and the final drive chain is on the left chainstay , then , can be a fixed gear ..
as the freewheel is in the hub and the crank chain attaches to the right side cog.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-10, 08:21 PM   #14
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: velospace.org/viewcluster?c=873
Posts: 7,115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
Adoption by bike manufacturers may also be discouraged by the fact that it is a single source item as compared to an IGH or standard derailleur drivetrain. No backup exists for fitting to frames made to accommodate the Pinion transmission if the manufacturer has problems of any sort.
Yeah, despite some advantage for DHers, I'd be amazed if it catches on.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-10, 09:16 PM   #15
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Bikes:
Posts: 8,066
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Very interesting adaption of what appears to be motorcycle transmission technology. I think Honda used a similar type of transmission in the bottom bracket of it's sponsored downhill MTB racers a few years ago but never commercialized it or licensed it to any bicycle component maker. They were also very secretive about its details.
Hrrhh?? Are you not familiar with the SR Suntour V-Boxx?
http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/ind...tail&tnid=2651
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-10, 09:24 PM   #16
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: velospace.org/viewcluster?c=873
Posts: 7,115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Wow, that looks pretty serious. The weight of 4.52kg (including cranks, sprockets, shifter & cables) should mention a weight range of the components it replaces... you could prolly ignore the frame, which would prolly weigh about the same, minus BB plus mounting bracketry.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-10, 09:00 AM   #17
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,121
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
Hrrhh?? Are you not familiar with the SR Suntour V-Boxx?
http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/ind...tail&tnid=2651
Nope, never heard of this before so thanks for the reference. Except for having "only" 9-speeds this thing certainly seem to have upstaged the Germans and has nearly the same range.

I wonder what the frame that incorporates it looks like. Obviously the bottom bracket area would have to be completly different from any current design.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-10, 09:23 PM   #18
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Bikes:
Posts: 8,066
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Nope, never heard of this before so thanks for the reference. Except for having "only" 9-speeds this thing certainly seem to have upstaged the Germans and has nearly the same range.

I wonder what the frame that incorporates it looks like. Obviously the bottom bracket area would have to be completly different from any current design.
I'm pretty sure it's the transmission that the "Honda" downhill bike used:

__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-10, 11:03 PM   #19
zzyzx_xyzzy
headtube.
 
zzyzx_xyzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
the honda bike actually had a regular old derailleur drivetrain packed into the case.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/8166/

i just can't get behind 180mm of q-factor.
zzyzx_xyzzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:50 PM.