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  1. #1
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    A New Bicycle Transmission

    http://tinyurl.com/244pbqe

    Reported on in the German magazine "Der Spiegel". 18 speed BB transmission with a 635% overall range and a weight only slightly more than an IGH.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

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  2. #2
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    Very interesting adaption of what appears to be motorcycle transmission technology. I think Honda used a similar type of transmission in the bottom bracket of it's sponsored downhill MTB racers a few years ago but never commercialized it or licensed it to any bicycle component maker. They were also very secretive about it's details.

    This new design does weigh 2.5 kg so that will be a drawback for the general market. For DH racing, the Honda's extra weight wasn't a handicap but would be for any other type of riding. The NuVinci CVT is the same weight as this thing and the Rohloff 14-speed IGH is a bit lighter. It will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere commercially or dies the death of most "revolutionary" bicycle transmissions.

    The translation of the Der Spiegel article was interesting reading in it's own right. It certainly wasn't done by either a native English speaker or a knowledgeable bicycle enthusiast.

  3. #3
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    HillRider;

    Automated computer done translation and they all leave much to be desired in my experience. Better than nothing though if you do not speak the language.

    As far as downhill bottom bracket transmissions go SR Suntour also did one that was in the 11 pound range as did a German company. I have the first generation NuVinci CVT hub on one bike and it is close to 9 pounds weight. The new N360 NuVinci is similar in claimed weight to the Pinion transmission.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

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  4. #4
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Frame builders have adopted the R'off as a Jack shaft in several designs , and frame mounted it , to make suspended wheels more compliant over rough ground..

    But that bit of gear won't make up for the Osaka company getting all the OEM business

    any more than Mercedes Benz will get to take over the Toyota sales figure.
    they occupy different market niches ..

    But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

    Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 09-03-10 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
    HillRider;

    Automated computer done translation and they all leave much to be desired in my experience. Better than nothing though if you do not speak the language.
    Yeah, that does explain the odd choice of terms. I remember hearing about one of the very early computerized translation programs that was set up to translate English to Russian and vice versa. As a test, the programmers gave it the English phrase "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." In Russian it came out "The whiskey is good but the meat is rotten."

    Quote Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
    As far as downhill bottom bracket transmissions go SR Suntour also did one that was in the 11 pound range as did a German company. I have the first generation NuVinci CVT hub on one bike and it is close to 9 pounds weight. The new N360 NuVinci is similar in claimed weight to the Pinion transmission.
    I do remember the first NuVinci CVT weighting over 4kg but when I just looked at their web site they are claiming about 2400 grams for the newest version.

  6. #6
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Interesting, but to a habitual retro-fitter such as myself, it does not look like much of a threat to the good old gearhub.
    If memory serves, I think it was the Honda geared bottom bracket that actually housed a full set of chain driven cogs and derailleurs. It was a big ungainly box, fun to look at but not much use for anything but downhill.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


    The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one. Elbert Hubbard.

  7. #7
    Reeks of aged cotton duck Hydrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

    Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
    Read... and ponder... my signature line. Orwell wasn't right about very many things, but he got that right.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.-Aristotle

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Yeah, that does explain the odd choice of terms. I remember hearing about one of the very early computerized translation programs that was set up to translate English to Russian and vice versa. As a test, the programmers gave it the English phrase "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." In Russian it came out "The whiskey is good but the meat is rotten."
    The other version I read was a translation to Russian and then back to English. The input phrase was "Out of sight, out of mind". It came back as "invisible, insane".
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Cross Creek's Avatar
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    Those Russian translations may be closer to the mark than they first appear, especially the first one!
    CC

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
    Interesting, but to a habitual retro-fitter such as myself, it does not look like much of a threat to the good old gearhub.
    If memory serves, I think it was the Honda geared bottom bracket that actually housed a full set of chain driven cogs and derailleurs. It was a big ungainly box, fun to look at but not much use for anything but downhill.
    Agreed 100%. The Rohloff succeeded in the market place, even with its high price, in large part because it was something retrofittable to the vast majority of existing bike frames. In fact Rohloff made versions, and accessories, to make it fit as many frame configurations as possible. This made a enthusiast and retail bike shop market for it that will not be available to the Pinion BB transmission. The same for the NuVinci hub and the new Shimano Alfine 11 speed when it hits the market.

    Adoption by bike manufacturers may also be discouraged by the fact that it is a single source item as compared to an IGH or standard derailleur drivetrain. No backup exists for fitting to frames made to accommodate the Pinion transmission if the manufacturer has problems of any sort.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
    Along with Hydrated's sig line, consider this one too:

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Frame builders have adopted the R'off as a Jack shaft in several designs , and frame mounted it , to make suspended wheels more compliant over rough ground..

    But that bit of gear won't make up for the Osaka company getting all the OEM business

    any more than Mercedes Benz will get to take over the Toyota sales figure.
    they occupy different market niches ..

    But they obviously have good Engineering departments in their Universitys , and studentsa dont get buried in Loans causing them to take the Bad goal jobs that pay well , Like designing more weapons.

    Modest Proposal.. retrain US engineering to stop making Murder so efficient and think more about living tools, rather than weapons improvements.
    Um, this added to the thread how???

    I sure that there are no weapons engineers in Germany, they farm all their design out to the US right?

  13. #13
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    There is a method to use the Rohloff by fitting a 4 bolt chainring,
    instead of the brake disc, it shares that bolt pattern.
    hub is built in the frame then, not in the hub ..
    and the final drive chain is on the left chainstay , then , can be a fixed gear ..
    as the freewheel is in the hub and the crank chain attaches to the right side cog.

  14. #14
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
    Adoption by bike manufacturers may also be discouraged by the fact that it is a single source item as compared to an IGH or standard derailleur drivetrain. No backup exists for fitting to frames made to accommodate the Pinion transmission if the manufacturer has problems of any sort.
    Yeah, despite some advantage for DHers, I'd be amazed if it catches on.

  15. #15
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Very interesting adaption of what appears to be motorcycle transmission technology. I think Honda used a similar type of transmission in the bottom bracket of it's sponsored downhill MTB racers a few years ago but never commercialized it or licensed it to any bicycle component maker. They were also very secretive about its details.
    Hrrhh?? Are you not familiar with the SR Suntour V-Boxx?
    http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/ind...tail&tnid=2651
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  16. #16
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
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    Wow, that looks pretty serious. The weight of 4.52kg (including cranks, sprockets, shifter & cables) should mention a weight range of the components it replaces... you could prolly ignore the frame, which would prolly weigh about the same, minus BB plus mounting bracketry.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
    Hrrhh?? Are you not familiar with the SR Suntour V-Boxx?
    http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/ind...tail&tnid=2651
    Nope, never heard of this before so thanks for the reference. Except for having "only" 9-speeds this thing certainly seem to have upstaged the Germans and has nearly the same range.

    I wonder what the frame that incorporates it looks like. Obviously the bottom bracket area would have to be completly different from any current design.

  18. #18
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Nope, never heard of this before so thanks for the reference. Except for having "only" 9-speeds this thing certainly seem to have upstaged the Germans and has nearly the same range.

    I wonder what the frame that incorporates it looks like. Obviously the bottom bracket area would have to be completly different from any current design.
    I'm pretty sure it's the transmission that the "Honda" downhill bike used:

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  19. #19
    headtube. zzyzx_xyzzy's Avatar
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    the honda bike actually had a regular old derailleur drivetrain packed into the case.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/video/8166/

    i just can't get behind 180mm of q-factor.

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