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  1. #1
    Senior Member DTownDave22's Avatar
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    Tire Installed Correctly? Lines on Tire Hidden Under Rim on a few Sections

    I have a real quick question and I'd love to know what the name of this part of the tire is called, because I could just use a reference book or website, but I thought it'd be straightfoward to ask here.

    Why I I Took My Tire/Tube Off

    I wanted to check my tubes on my tire for my road bike--tires are 700x32, max psi of 110, and thought I'd remove the tire as well.


    Lines in Tire Hidden Under Rim

    After installing, I noticed that the lines that are about 1/4 long (probably less) and less than 1/4 part, all along my tire, that are perpindicular to the outside of my tire on certain parts of the tire I took off are underneath the rim, somewhat hidden. I noticed where this is the case, it's on both sides of the tire.

    The rear tire which I have not removed, does not look like this. Both pics attached in this thread are from the same tire, the rear tire.

    What's the Cause Here?
    I'm not sure what, if anything, I may have done incorrectly. Perhaps the tube is not installed quite right? I don't think those lines are simply worn out there, because it's on both sides and there should be at least a faint line underneath that is perpendicular and goes all around the tire which are close to the rim. You can see this in the picture with the section of the tire with lines more over the rim, "Lines ove rim"

    Any experience to draw on and advice, I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by DTownDave22; 09-03-10 at 02:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    The tire is not seated evenly. If you ride it this way you may notice a bump each time the wheel goes around.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/flats.html

    As usual, Mr. Brown has the answer. Scroll down to "Seating Your Tire"

  3. #3
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    The little lines are an area where a little more rubber is to provide some extra structural integrity along the tire bead.

    Often, a tire will mount similar to what you've pictured, then when you inflate the tube it will pop into place (usually with a "POP" sound). If you're at pressure, worst cast is most likely to be that the tire runs a little out of round and will increase wear. Not really a higher risk of a blowout or puncture, other than perhaps a pinch flat.

    If I were faced with this mount, I would drop the tire pressure significantly to where the tire is easily moved and adjust the bead before reinflating.

  4. #4
    Senior Member DTownDave22's Avatar
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    Hm..well it would make more sense to put that under a main article titled "installing tire", instead of "flat tires". I'm trying to avoid getting a flat, hence the reason I looked for and read material watched videos on installing--no mention of this in what I was looking at.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by DTownDave22; 09-03-10 at 02:11 PM.

  5. #5
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    Any time you mount a tire you need to be super careful that no part of the tube is pinched between the tire's bead and any part of the rim. Under high pressure the tube will make a rapid explosive exit.

  6. #6
    Senior Member DTownDave22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoerges View Post
    The little lines are an area where a little more rubber is to provide some extra structural integrity along the tire bead.

    Often, a tire will mount similar to what you've pictured, then when you inflate the tube it will pop into place (usually with a "POP" sound). If you're at pressure, worst cast is most likely to be that the tire runs a little out of round and will increase wear. Not really a higher risk of a blowout or puncture, other than perhaps a pinch flat.

    If I were faced with this mount, I would drop the tire pressure significantly to where the tire is easily moved and adjust the bead before reinflating.
    I think I initially misunderstood your post. It looks like that regardless of whether it's inflated or not, which confuses me and makes me think the tube is not quite right within the tire, because it's not sticking out. I'm just trying to figure out how I can get those parts of the tire where those lines or "witness line" are under the rim, to look like the rear tire and the rest of the front tire

    The main reason I thought I'd ask is because getting this tire on was such a pain, figuratively and literally. I now have a sizeable blister on my thumb as using gloves didn't seem to really allow me to get the tire on. I'd prefer not to have to take it off, but in the end, if there is a easier way to get the tire on correctly (if it's not), then I'd like to be referred to some material--the park tool book I have--their instructions just were not working.
    Last edited by DTownDave22; 09-03-10 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    lube the bead(soapy water, windex), inflate, work the low spot out

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTownDave22 View Post

    After installing, I noticed that the lines that are about 1/4 long (probably less) and less than 1/4 part, all along my tire, that are perpindicular to the outside of my tire on certain parts of the tire I took off are underneath the rim, somewhat hidden. I noticed where this is the case, it's on both sides of the tire.

    The rear tire which I have not removed, does not look like this. Both pics attached in this thread are from the same tire, the rear tire.
    As noted already the tire is not seated correctly. Not all tires have the parallel lines you refer to, but if you notice there is also a raised ridge of rubber that is right next to the rim. That is present on pretty much all tires, commonly called a bead ridge/line. It should indeed be the same distance from the rim all the way around. You first need to make sure that nowhere on the tire is the bead line out from the rim like the area you showed is inward.

    If everything is even except for that area there are two methods for seating the tire correctly. One is to deflate the tire and then apply something on the area that is too far in. You don't have to remove the tire - just push it in to create a gap between tire and rim). I have seen soapy water, alcohol, various other things suggested - I use something like Fantastic, 409 or similar. Reinflate the tire till the bead pops out - not uncommon to have to inflate well over the usual pressure. some have success merely overinflating. Some shops have a Park tool which allows one to grab the tire and pull out the problem area.
    Last edited by cny-bikeman; 09-03-10 at 04:07 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTownDave22 View Post
    The main reason I thought I'd ask is because getting this tire on was such a pain, figuratively and literally. I now have a sizeable blister on my thumb as using gloves didn't seem to really allow me to get the tire on.
    As for mounting the tire, try this next time.

    1. After getting on the 1st bead and mounting the slightly inflated tube inside (some put the tube in tire 1st, some don't) start mounting the other bead on the rim opposite the valve stem (hub in between). Push the tire on with thumbs and the heel of your hand, working from both sides.

    2. When it starts to get difficult press on the tire with your arms and depress the valve to let out all excess air. The go back to the beginning and push the tire in toward the middle of the rim, where the diameter is smallest, and "scrub" around toward the stem again. Those two actions will create more slack.

    3 Continue to push the bead over the rim, being careful that the tube does not get pinched. Finish just to one side of the valve stem, and if a shraeder stem push it a bit up into the tire before trying to finish. You should find it much easier to mount.

    I was a mechanic for over 20 years and I can hardly remember a tire that I could not mount without tools using the above method. In fact there were some tires where step 2 allowed me to dismount the tire without a tool! If nothing else that step allowed easier removal with tire irons (starting at the valve stem of course).

  10. #10
    Senior Member DTownDave22's Avatar
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    I seem to still be having trouble. I tried putting soap on the bead and side of the tire before putting the tube along with the tire on the wheel.

    Now when I try putting the second side of the tire on, when I get about 1/2 to 2/3 of the second side on, I seem to be getting nowhere, as I'm putting one end of the tire that's not on completely, the opposite end of that same side of the tire starts coming off and it's like I keep going in circles.

    I put the soap on a few hours ago, so I'm not sure if that was/is still a problem but this is just frustrating because I thought this would be simple. So I've taken a step back now from when I first posted.

    I did notice one video showed that one cause of a tire not seating correctly can be the wheel strip that proects the tube. I doubt that is the cause, but I guess I could just start all over again and check.

    I'm not even sure if this tire was seated with the line basically even all the way around to begin with but I would think that's important based on what advice was given here and what I've read.

  11. #11
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTownDave22 View Post

    I'm not even sure if this tire was seated with the line basically even all the way around to begin with but I would think that's important based on what advice was given here and what I've read.
    If the tire had not been seated correctly before, you would have noticed a pronounced bump while riding the bike. Continue working on it- different tires take different combination of lube, pressure, and physical manipulation before they seat properly. I just went through this with a tight-fitting Moulton tire- 3 sessions of lubing the bead, pumping up, deflating, and trying again before the bead popped into place at 80psi.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTownDave22 View Post
    I seem to still be having trouble. I tried putting soap on the bead and side of the tire before putting the tube along with the tire on the wheel.

    Now when I try putting the second side of the tire on, when I get about 1/2 to 2/3 of the second side on, I seem to be getting nowhere, as I'm putting one end of the tire that's not on completely, the opposite end of that same side of the tire starts coming off and it's like I keep going in circles.
    Do not take the tire off to apply the soapy water or whatever you use. Just push the tire in to make a gap between tire and rim. You should be able to just rewet the area with some water, or use Windex, 409, et.

    As I noted in my post - "Push the tire on with thumbs and the heel of your hand, working from both sides.

    A too-thick rim strip can cause very difficult mounting and seating problems and could have been there from the start - they just managed to overcome the seating problem.
    Last edited by cny-bikeman; 09-04-10 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member DTownDave22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
    Do not take the tire off to apply the soapy water or whatever you use. Just push the tire in to make a gap between tire and rim. You should be able to just rewet the area with some water, or use Windex, 409, et.

    As I noted in my post - "Push the tire on with thumbs and the heel of your hand, working from both sides.

    A too-thick rim strip can cause very difficult mounting and seating problems and could have been there from the start - they just managed to overcome the seating problem.
    Thanks for your advice. However, in your previous explanation, it may seem obvious to you, but when you simply say "working from both sides", that is not totally clear to me. After putting one side of the tire on:

    (1) I move on to the next side and grab one side of the tire (the first that is already on) with my fingers and work the part of the side I'm trying to get on with my thumbs. It doesn't really seem to matter if I try to get it on at an angle more from the bottom or push it in from a more direct angle, I seem to be having this problem now which makes me think I may have messed something up possibly because I washed all the soap off of the tire and tube and dried them.

    I can't even get to the point I was at before, being concerned about the witness line being even and then trying to put soap on those areas to make the line even.

    I'll keep the other post in mind though, about this not always being easy if I ever get it back on, but like I said, I can't and this is frustrating.

  14. #14
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    I'm sorry I was not more clear. You have to use BOTH hands (thumb/palm) at the same time, working from both sides toward the valve stem. I am going to have to put my technique on video and upload to Youtube, as I could not find one example of doing it the way I know works best.

  15. #15
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    In other words you put one of your hands around to the other spot where the tire crosses over the rim and work both of the crossing points towards the stem. Cny isn't talking about "both" as in the right and left sidewalls but the points where the one side is crossing over the rim lip in the two spots.

    The other thing you can do is employ your "third hand" and put a knee onto the one crossing point so you can use both hands over at the other crossing point. Both to lift and flex over the lip or one to hold things in place while your other hand sweeps around the sidewall portion that is already seated to re-center the bead in the deepest part of the rim channel.

    Cny mentioned this a couple of times too but I'd like to reinforce this sweeping step. The biggest key to painless tire installation is to repeatedly sweep the bead that is already mounted to the center of the rim channel. As soon as the cross over points get tight sweep it again and again. It's nothing on a tight fit for me to sweep the bead back to center a good 6 to 8 times. By doing this all but the tightest of tires can be mounted without resorting to using a lever.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  16. #16
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    Well, that may work but that is not the way I do it. I use one hand to push the tire bead over the rim on the right side and the other hand on the left, quickly alternating pushing with one and holding the other. I do not worry about sweeping until it gets difficult. Then I set the tire on the floor, sweep/scrub the bead toward the deepest part of the rim and continue the mounting process. I seldom have to do the sweeping more than once. Again, it's much easier to explain visually, but the videos I found all do it the "wrong" (less effective) way.

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