Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Making a frugal 9 to 10 sp conversion?

    So I'll spare the full story, but essentially I was told by a mechanic while installing a front derailleur that my left shifter might be on its way out because it's not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos.

    My current problem is that I don't have the bank roll to make a full groupo conversion but I do have two really long organized rides coming up and of course I'd like a bike in optimal working order for both of them. So, I'm cruising craigslist and ebay and looking for the cheapest way to make a conversion from 9 to 10 speed with newish shifters. Essentially I know I'd have to have a 10 speed rear derailler, cassette, shifters and chain, but my quandry to all of you intelligent home and professional mechanics alike: Can I keep my front derailleur and crankset and will they work with a 10 speed set up? Would it be possible if the chainrings are the problem to only replace them for 10 sp specific width and save where I can?

    I'm going for a second opinion on the derailleur tomorrow as it doesn't rub on the small chain ring but does on almost all gears on the large one, but am looking for a pool of information to resource. Thanks for your help ladies and germs.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,767
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So many questions here that I don't even know where to begin.

    I'll start by saying that you do not need a new rear derailler to go from 9 to 10 speed (possible exception is Dura Ace 7900 but that's only because I'm unfamiliar with it). Your crankset will also not need to be changed. I would suggest a 10 speed front derailler though as shifting performance is better than using a wider 9 speed front derailler with the narrower 10 speed chain.

    As for your front shifter "not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos" I'd look for a second opinion. Shimano shifters don't typically fail in a slow fashion. They either work right or they don't work at all. And often when they don't work, all that's needed to make them work like new again is a flush with some WD-40 or similar lubricant. In your situation, it sounds like the "mechanic" simply does not know how to properly set up the front derailler.

  3. #3
    Low car diet JiveTurkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Corvallis, OR, USA
    My Bikes
    2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You do not need a new rear derailleur; it doesn't care how many speeds you have. The essential things to match in speed are rear shifter, cassette, and chain. It is optimal to also match the front derailleur because the outside width of 10-speed chains are slightly narrower and so is the cage of the FD.

    What are the "extreme" gearing combos? Did you have the same problem before the new FD was installed? Seems highly suspect if the problem suddenly developed; if so, it sounds more like a bad installation.

    Sometimes the shifter can be revived by dousing the innards with WD-40.
    Quote Originally Posted by slopvehicle View Post
    Not wearing a helmet makes me more aware of my surroundings. I find myself anticipating the hardness of concrete 50 or 100 feet in front of me, it's almost a zen-like connection between my face and the pavement.

  4. #4
    Low car diet JiveTurkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Corvallis, OR, USA
    My Bikes
    2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
    Posts
    2,359
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow. We had almost exactly the same post at exactly the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by slopvehicle View Post
    Not wearing a helmet makes me more aware of my surroundings. I find myself anticipating the hardness of concrete 50 or 100 feet in front of me, it's almost a zen-like connection between my face and the pavement.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It was definitely more difficult than I felt it ought to be to get the chain from the smaller chain ring to the larger chain ring before the new FD installation and it doesn't seem to have been drastically improved or worsened since the newer FD but now I definitely have a lot of chain rub on the FD in the big chain ring in any gear. I'm without question going in for a second opinion tomorrow and to see if my shifter can be easily serviced. When I say the gearing 'extremes' I mean the big chain ring and the easiest gear, or the small chain ring and the hardest gear, etc.

    I'm quite surprised by the fact that the rear derailleur isn't the one affected by number of gears, and would have thought the front to be the more simple conversion. I guess I am the ultimate victim of marketing. Thanks to you guys I know better. Any other questions I should propose to the hopefully more knowledgeable mechanic tomorrow?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pearland, Texas
    My Bikes
    Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana
    Posts
    5,135
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "So I'll spare the full story, but essentially I was told by a mechanic while installing a front derailleur that my left shifter might be on its way out because it's not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos." -- akaelicash



    If the shifter is holding the FD in the outward position over the big chainring it's doing it's job. Why did you change the FD? Triple or a double? Compact or standard crankset? Was this a problem before changing the FD?

    Brad

    Edit PS This was sitting for a bit while I multi tasked with the dogs... many of the questions have been asked before I finally posted.
    Last edited by bradtx; 09-10-10 at 09:34 PM.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I upgraded from a 105 to an Ultegra because I wanted to have a full ultegra set up after receiving some ultegra brakes as a gift. The FD was used on ebay but when received looks new and the mechanic thought it was as well. Standard crankset, 52/39, 172.5, currently running 9 speed, gearing is on the cassette 12-25. Had minimal to negligible chain rub before the switch.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,767
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
    Had minimal to negligible chain rub before the switch.
    If the only thing that changed was the front derailler, it seems very unlikely that it's a shifter issue causing the problem. Setting up a front derailler on a bike with STI shifters is less forgiving than doing the same thing on a friction shifter bike. However, using the correct procedure makes the job quite simple. My guess is that your mechanic made a number of mistakes along the way and tried to tune them out rather than starting over. The result is less than optimal shifting. Hopefully you can find someone who knows how to set the system up correctly. Or you can read up at www.shimano.com and www.parktool.com and learn how to work on your own bike.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like I said, it is definitely a concerned effort to get the shifter to comply with the switch from the small chain ring to the large chainring, and has been that way for a little while. I can definitely see how the swap should not have caused any let alone more chain rub. So if the issue still enlies with my shifter, is it a pretty simple DW 40 spray and overnight dry kind of deal?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pearland, Texas
    My Bikes
    Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana
    Posts
    5,135
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    akaelicash, Where is the chain rubbing, the sides or the rear? Does the Ultegra FD's cage arc match the 105's? My first impression is that a FD for a compact crankset may've been installed.

    Brad

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,767
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
    Like I said, it is definitely a concerned effort to get the shifter to comply with the switch from the small chain ring to the large chainring, and has been that way for a little while. I can definitely see how the swap should not have caused any let alone more chain rub. So if the issue still enlies with my shifter, is it a pretty simple DW 40 spray and overnight dry kind of deal?
    Can you elaborate on this bolded statement?

    The WD-40 treatment consists of drenching the innards of the shifter with lubricant and then actuating the paddles a bunch of times. However, I don't believe it's relevant for your situation. I'm guessing you simply need to add some cable tension and/or adjust the high limit screw.

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Essentially the first push all the way over on the left shifter to get it to switch back to the big chain ring does not always convince it and I feel like I have to remind it with another small tap before it finally pulls the chain all the way up. Maybe I'm just being a wendy weak hands and this is just how it is to be but I remember it happening much more smoothly in the past.

  13. #13
    Senior Member vredstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    My Bikes
    '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '98 Fuji Touring w/ Shimano Nexus premium, '06 Jamis Nova 853 cross frame set up as commuter, '03 Fuji Roubaix Pro 853 back up training bike
    Posts
    695
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
    Essentially the first push all the way over on the left shifter to get it to switch back to the big chain ring does not always convince it and I feel like I have to remind it with another small tap before it finally pulls the chain all the way up. Maybe I'm just being a wendy weak hands and this is just how it is to be but I remember it happening much more smoothly in the past.
    Is the lever action "hard" during all of this travel, or does it start out fairly normal, then get harder toward the end of the lever travel?
    "See, it's not that getting wet is a big deal. Really, it's what you're getting wet with.
    Fenders....because it's probably urine."
    Bike Snob NYC

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is he routing the cable correctly through the pinch bolt?

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    My Bikes
    '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Uh, quite frankly I am not sure that I can be that specific upon memory. I have just been thinking of the motion wholistically if you will, but if I had to speculate I would definitely say it does become harder toward the end as it seems like there is always just a little bit of play with the big lever on either shifter which I'd have to say makes it easier at the beginning of the shift. Really though, I'm not sure that I can be sure at what point during the shift it becomes considerably more difficult, I just know that it is very stubborn these days getting back to the big chain ring. I appreciate all the probes and possible solutions but I fear that this may simply be something that is not only subjective but hard to describe without it being tangible to ya'll and your ability to see and feel exactly what I mean. To an alternative LBS I go in the morning for a second opinion.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Boulder, Colorado
    My Bikes
    Cinelli Supercoursa 69, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Mondonico Diamond Extra 05, Coors Light Greg Lemond (built by Scapin) 88, Scapin MTB, Stumpjumper 83, Specialized Stumpjumper M4, Lemond Poprad 2001
    Posts
    1,366
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    So many questions here that I don't even know where to begin.

    I'll start by saying that you do not need a new rear derailler to go from 9 to 10 speed (possible exception is Dura Ace 7900 but that's only because I'm unfamiliar with it). Your crankset will also not need to be changed. I would suggest a 10 speed front derailler though as shifting performance is better than using a wider 9 speed front derailler with the narrower 10 speed chain.

    As for your front shifter "not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos" I'd look for a second opinion. Shimano shifters don't typically fail in a slow fashion. They either work right or they don't work at all. And often when they don't work, all that's needed to make them work like new again is a flush with some WD-40 or similar lubricant. In your situation, it sounds like the "mechanic" simply does not know how to properly set up the front derailler.
    You saved me from writing all the same words. Confused by the "rubbing" comment. First thing I would check is the RD hanger alignment. The second thing is the setting of the B screw to move the body of the RD back to disengage the cog set (may be missing the "rubbing" comment...do you mean the cassette is making contact with the RD wheel?). Clarify pls.

  17. #17
    cs1
    cs1 is offline
    Senior Member cs1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Clev Oh
    My Bikes
    Specialized, Schwinn
    Posts
    6,130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
    . So, I'm cruising craigslist and ebay and looking for the cheapest way to make a conversion from 9 to 10 speed with newish shifters.
    Judging by the comments You've got a Shimano equipped bike.
    1999 Waterford RSE-11, 1995 Waterford 1200, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp
    1989 Raleigh Technium, 1989 Schwinn Traveler, 1986 Specialized Rockhopper
    1984 Specialized Stumpjumper, 1986 Specialized Stumpjumper and just way too many projects to list.

  18. #18
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,550
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep, sounds like the shifter's fine and the derailleur's been poorly set up.

    How tight is the cable in the big ring? If you can pluck it like a guitar string, that suggests the high limit screw is in too far. Also, if it rubs in every gear, its alignment is obviously no good.

    I'd suggest reading up and having a go yourself. It's a fiddly job, but it's not rocket science and perseverance should pay off.

    It'd be hard to do a worse job than your mechanic, by the sound of it

  19. #19
    Senior Member dbikingman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Spokane/Tri-Cities WA
    My Bikes
    mountain bike, road bike
    Posts
    1,315
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    well what was the second opinion from the LBS? Don't leave me hanging for the results.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •