Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-10-10, 09:03 PM   #1
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Making a frugal 9 to 10 sp conversion?

So I'll spare the full story, but essentially I was told by a mechanic while installing a front derailleur that my left shifter might be on its way out because it's not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos.

My current problem is that I don't have the bank roll to make a full groupo conversion but I do have two really long organized rides coming up and of course I'd like a bike in optimal working order for both of them. So, I'm cruising craigslist and ebay and looking for the cheapest way to make a conversion from 9 to 10 speed with newish shifters. Essentially I know I'd have to have a 10 speed rear derailler, cassette, shifters and chain, but my quandry to all of you intelligent home and professional mechanics alike: Can I keep my front derailleur and crankset and will they work with a 10 speed set up? Would it be possible if the chainrings are the problem to only replace them for 10 sp specific width and save where I can?

I'm going for a second opinion on the derailleur tomorrow as it doesn't rub on the small chain ring but does on almost all gears on the large one, but am looking for a pool of information to resource. Thanks for your help ladies and germs.
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:12 PM   #2
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,118
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
So many questions here that I don't even know where to begin.

I'll start by saying that you do not need a new rear derailler to go from 9 to 10 speed (possible exception is Dura Ace 7900 but that's only because I'm unfamiliar with it). Your crankset will also not need to be changed. I would suggest a 10 speed front derailler though as shifting performance is better than using a wider 9 speed front derailler with the narrower 10 speed chain.

As for your front shifter "not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos" I'd look for a second opinion. Shimano shifters don't typically fail in a slow fashion. They either work right or they don't work at all. And often when they don't work, all that's needed to make them work like new again is a flush with some WD-40 or similar lubricant. In your situation, it sounds like the "mechanic" simply does not know how to properly set up the front derailler.
joejack951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:12 PM   #3
JiveTurkey
Low car diet
 
JiveTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR, USA
Bikes: 2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
Posts: 2,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You do not need a new rear derailleur; it doesn't care how many speeds you have. The essential things to match in speed are rear shifter, cassette, and chain. It is optimal to also match the front derailleur because the outside width of 10-speed chains are slightly narrower and so is the cage of the FD.

What are the "extreme" gearing combos? Did you have the same problem before the new FD was installed? Seems highly suspect if the problem suddenly developed; if so, it sounds more like a bad installation.

Sometimes the shifter can be revived by dousing the innards with WD-40.
JiveTurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:13 PM   #4
JiveTurkey
Low car diet
 
JiveTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR, USA
Bikes: 2006 Windsor Dover w/105, 2007 GT Avalanche w/XT, 1995 Trek 820 setup for touring, 201? Yeah single-speed folder, 199? Huffy tandem.
Posts: 2,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow. We had almost exactly the same post at exactly the same time.
JiveTurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:19 PM   #5
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It was definitely more difficult than I felt it ought to be to get the chain from the smaller chain ring to the larger chain ring before the new FD installation and it doesn't seem to have been drastically improved or worsened since the newer FD but now I definitely have a lot of chain rub on the FD in the big chain ring in any gear. I'm without question going in for a second opinion tomorrow and to see if my shifter can be easily serviced. When I say the gearing 'extremes' I mean the big chain ring and the easiest gear, or the small chain ring and the hardest gear, etc.

I'm quite surprised by the fact that the rear derailleur isn't the one affected by number of gears, and would have thought the front to be the more simple conversion. I guess I am the ultimate victim of marketing. Thanks to you guys I know better. Any other questions I should propose to the hopefully more knowledgeable mechanic tomorrow?
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:29 PM   #6
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana
Posts: 6,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
"So I'll spare the full story, but essentially I was told by a mechanic while installing a front derailleur that my left shifter might be on its way out because it's not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos." -- akaelicash



If the shifter is holding the FD in the outward position over the big chainring it's doing it's job. Why did you change the FD? Triple or a double? Compact or standard crankset? Was this a problem before changing the FD?

Brad

Edit PS This was sitting for a bit while I multi tasked with the dogs... many of the questions have been asked before I finally posted.

Last edited by bradtx; 09-10-10 at 09:34 PM.
bradtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:36 PM   #7
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I upgraded from a 105 to an Ultegra because I wanted to have a full ultegra set up after receiving some ultegra brakes as a gift. The FD was used on ebay but when received looks new and the mechanic thought it was as well. Standard crankset, 52/39, 172.5, currently running 9 speed, gearing is on the cassette 12-25. Had minimal to negligible chain rub before the switch.
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:48 PM   #8
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,118
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
Had minimal to negligible chain rub before the switch.
If the only thing that changed was the front derailler, it seems very unlikely that it's a shifter issue causing the problem. Setting up a front derailler on a bike with STI shifters is less forgiving than doing the same thing on a friction shifter bike. However, using the correct procedure makes the job quite simple. My guess is that your mechanic made a number of mistakes along the way and tried to tune them out rather than starting over. The result is less than optimal shifting. Hopefully you can find someone who knows how to set the system up correctly. Or you can read up at www.shimano.com and www.parktool.com and learn how to work on your own bike.
joejack951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 09:53 PM   #9
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Like I said, it is definitely a concerned effort to get the shifter to comply with the switch from the small chain ring to the large chainring, and has been that way for a little while. I can definitely see how the swap should not have caused any let alone more chain rub. So if the issue still enlies with my shifter, is it a pretty simple DW 40 spray and overnight dry kind of deal?
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 10:00 PM   #10
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana
Posts: 6,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
akaelicash, Where is the chain rubbing, the sides or the rear? Does the Ultegra FD's cage arc match the 105's? My first impression is that a FD for a compact crankset may've been installed.

Brad
bradtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 10:15 PM   #11
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,118
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
Like I said, it is definitely a concerned effort to get the shifter to comply with the switch from the small chain ring to the large chainring, and has been that way for a little while. I can definitely see how the swap should not have caused any let alone more chain rub. So if the issue still enlies with my shifter, is it a pretty simple DW 40 spray and overnight dry kind of deal?
Can you elaborate on this bolded statement?

The WD-40 treatment consists of drenching the innards of the shifter with lubricant and then actuating the paddles a bunch of times. However, I don't believe it's relevant for your situation. I'm guessing you simply need to add some cable tension and/or adjust the high limit screw.
joejack951 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 10:33 PM   #12
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Essentially the first push all the way over on the left shifter to get it to switch back to the big chain ring does not always convince it and I feel like I have to remind it with another small tap before it finally pulls the chain all the way up. Maybe I'm just being a wendy weak hands and this is just how it is to be but I remember it happening much more smoothly in the past.
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 11:05 PM   #13
vredstein
Senior Member
 
vredstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Bikes: '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '98 Fuji Touring w/ Shimano Nexus premium, '06 Jamis Nova 853 cross frame set up as commuter, '03 Fuji Roubaix Pro 853 back up training bike
Posts: 704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
Essentially the first push all the way over on the left shifter to get it to switch back to the big chain ring does not always convince it and I feel like I have to remind it with another small tap before it finally pulls the chain all the way up. Maybe I'm just being a wendy weak hands and this is just how it is to be but I remember it happening much more smoothly in the past.
Is the lever action "hard" during all of this travel, or does it start out fairly normal, then get harder toward the end of the lever travel?
vredstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 11:10 PM   #14
cbfight
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is he routing the cable correctly through the pinch bolt?
cbfight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 11:10 PM   #15
akaelicash
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: '05 Specialized Roubaix Elite, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper 29er
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Uh, quite frankly I am not sure that I can be that specific upon memory. I have just been thinking of the motion wholistically if you will, but if I had to speculate I would definitely say it does become harder toward the end as it seems like there is always just a little bit of play with the big lever on either shifter which I'd have to say makes it easier at the beginning of the shift. Really though, I'm not sure that I can be sure at what point during the shift it becomes considerably more difficult, I just know that it is very stubborn these days getting back to the big chain ring. I appreciate all the probes and possible solutions but I fear that this may simply be something that is not only subjective but hard to describe without it being tangible to ya'll and your ability to see and feel exactly what I mean. To an alternative LBS I go in the morning for a second opinion.
akaelicash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-10, 11:46 PM   #16
Deanster04
Senior Member
 
Deanster04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Bikes: Cinelli Supercoursa 69, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Mondonico Diamond Extra 05, Coors Light Greg Lemond (built by Scapin) 88, Scapin MTB, Stumpjumper 83, Specialized Stumpjumper M4, Lemond Poprad 2001
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
So many questions here that I don't even know where to begin.

I'll start by saying that you do not need a new rear derailler to go from 9 to 10 speed (possible exception is Dura Ace 7900 but that's only because I'm unfamiliar with it). Your crankset will also not need to be changed. I would suggest a 10 speed front derailler though as shifting performance is better than using a wider 9 speed front derailler with the narrower 10 speed chain.

As for your front shifter "not holding the cable tension required to keep the derailleur from rubbing on the extremes of the gearing combos" I'd look for a second opinion. Shimano shifters don't typically fail in a slow fashion. They either work right or they don't work at all. And often when they don't work, all that's needed to make them work like new again is a flush with some WD-40 or similar lubricant. In your situation, it sounds like the "mechanic" simply does not know how to properly set up the front derailler.
You saved me from writing all the same words. Confused by the "rubbing" comment. First thing I would check is the RD hanger alignment. The second thing is the setting of the B screw to move the body of the RD back to disengage the cog set (may be missing the "rubbing" comment...do you mean the cassette is making contact with the RD wheel?). Clarify pls.
Deanster04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-10, 06:42 PM   #17
cs1
Senior Member
 
cs1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clev Oh
Bikes: Specialized, Schwinn
Posts: 6,669
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaelicash View Post
. So, I'm cruising craigslist and ebay and looking for the cheapest way to make a conversion from 9 to 10 speed with newish shifters.
Judging by the comments You've got a Shimano equipped bike.
cs1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-10, 06:58 PM   #18
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
Posts: 7,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, sounds like the shifter's fine and the derailleur's been poorly set up.

How tight is the cable in the big ring? If you can pluck it like a guitar string, that suggests the high limit screw is in too far. Also, if it rubs in every gear, its alignment is obviously no good.

I'd suggest reading up and having a go yourself. It's a fiddly job, but it's not rocket science and perseverance should pay off.

It'd be hard to do a worse job than your mechanic, by the sound of it
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-10, 07:20 PM   #19
dbikingman
Senior Member
 
dbikingman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Spokane/Tri-Cities WA
Bikes: mountain bike, road bike
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
well what was the second opinion from the LBS? Don't leave me hanging for the results.
dbikingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:04 PM.