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Old 09-27-10, 04:22 AM   #1
Oostal
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upgrading wheels and cassette (classic steel/Shimano600)

Hi,

I asked a similar question in the C/V forum, but now I have more specific technical questions and would appreciate any advice.

I have a steel frame (Peugeot/Reynolds 708) that I got second hand. I have been riding it through the summer and really like the frame, but not so much the components. Firstly, I would like to get rid of the wheels, as the stock Mavic MA40 seem to flex a bit too much on the climbs. I was looking at Fulcrum 5.

As I was thinking on whether the Fulcrums are compatible with the older Shimano 600 cassette and other components, I realized that I could as well swap the cassette. I currently have the traditional 52/42 chainring with a 9-sp cassette and struggle a bit on steeper climbs. So I am considering getting a new cassette. I noticed that there is a Ultegra 9-speed 12-27 available. Does anyone know, whether it would work OK with the Shimano 600 derailleur? It seems quite a range. Would it still shift nicely? My technical knowledge in these things is very limited, especially when it comes to older road bike components. Any advice is welcome!

Thanks!

Last edited by Oostal; 09-27-10 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:32 AM   #2
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I used to have a pre-indexing Shimano 600 rear derailleur on an older Bridgestone frame and it worked fine with a 28T big cog so if your derailleur hanger is suitable, your rd should work with the 12x27 cassette too.

As to the "flexing" wheels, are you sure the spoke tension is adequately high? Having the wheels retensioned might be all it takes.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:44 AM   #3
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If I assume you are talking about a short cage neither the old series 600 or the Ultegra 600 were rated for a 27 tooth cog (or probably for a chain take up of 25). The 600 Ultegra was an 8 speed derailleur but it may have the reach for a 9 speed but I have never tried. The older 600 would really struggle since it was a 7 speed design. If you have a long cage 600 Ultegra it would handle a 27 cog and the chain take up and you probably don't ride crossed chain. You can mount it on the frame let out the stops and see the east-west range before you buy the cassette but it would probably handle a 9 speed.

The MA40's are fine on my bike and I an 175 pounds. I would wonder if that is where you are feeling the flex.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:51 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ronp6 View Post
If I assume you are talking about a short cage neither the old series 600 or the Ultegra 600 were rated for a 27 tooth cog (or probably for a chain take up of 25)........but it would probably handle a 9 speed.
Cage length has no bearing on the largest cog a rear derailleur will clear, it only controls how much chain "wrap" it will handle. As I said above the old 600 rd I had easily worked with a 28T cog. Mine was a long cage but I was using it with a triple crank so the extra wrap capacity was needed.

As to working with a 9-speed cassette, according to the OP, that's what he is using right now so that issue is moot.
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Old 09-27-10, 12:43 PM   #5
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It's an interesting point that you brought out! I am not really familiar with older road bike groups like the 600 series. I got the bike second hand. It has Shimano 600 front and rear derailleurs plus Tiagra 9-speed flight deck. The cassette seems to be 9-speed CS-HG 70.

Was the Shimano 600 group really made for 7-8 speed cassette? I wonder, because I have been struggling with getting the gears shift smoothly. As soon as I get one end working nicely, the other end has problems (the chain is rubbing agains the derailleur, comes off, etc.). May be I should change to 7 or 8-speed cassette to improve the situation? Would the Tiagra shifters work OK with less gears, or are there better STI options for the Shimano 600? Was there ever a Shimano 600 STI flight deck made? Otherwise my derailleurs and brakes are in very nice condition.

Sorry for so many questions. It seems that as soon as I understand one part, somenthing else comes up. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks!
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Old 09-27-10, 06:55 PM   #6
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Shimano's "600" derailleurs predate indexing entirely so getting one to index with any number of speeds may be difficult to impossible.

When Shimano developed it's SIS (i.e. indexing) groups, the rear derailleurs from that point on were usable with any number of "speeds" with only a couple of exceptions. It was around the 8-speed development that the name Ultegra was added to the 600 group.
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Old 09-27-10, 07:50 PM   #7
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The first change you should make is replacing the 42 chainring with a 39, this will help with climbing. After that if you still need lower gearing you could try a 12-27 cassette. My 1980 Trek 510 was equipped new with Shimano 600 52-39 chainrings and 14-26 six speed freewheel. The short cage rear derailleur worked perfectly with the 26.
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Old 09-27-10, 08:07 PM   #8
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Have the rear wheel rebuilt onto a new and better stiffer rim using the same hub.
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