Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Regina freewheels - a little help?

    I have 2 Regina Oro 6 spd. freewheels: a 13.14.15.17.19.21 dated '84 and a 13.15.17.19.21.23 dated '79. The '84 one has a shot body but the cogs are in good shape so I'd like to use some as replacements on the other body.

    I was able to unscrew the 13 cog from one unit; I haven't gotten the other to budge, but I'm assuming I can get it off. Based on Sheldon's freewheel page, I'm expecting all the cogs to be right threaded except for the two largest (bolded above), which will be left-threaded. Does that sound correct? If that's the case, then I should be able to use any of the cogs from the 13-21, with the exception of the 19 cog, which will have the wrong threading.

    Does this make sense, or have I missed something? Other than what's on Sheldon's page, are there any secrets for getting these things apart?

  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,392
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The last 2 are threaded on from the back the freewheel has to come off to get those off ..

    You got extra cogs, spares are freaking rare , cog boards with a pick of spares, went out in the end of the 70's

  3. #3
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    The last 2 are threaded on from the back the freewheel has to come off to get those off ..
    So are you saying that the 2 largest cogs are right threaded, but the threads on the body are reversed vis-a-vis the threads for the smaller cogs? Ie. that I turn the large cogs counter-clockwise to remove, but from the back of the freewheel? If so, then I suppose I could in fact use the 19t cog in whatever position I choose(?)

    Thanks for the reply.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,421
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The largest cog can't be right threaded because it would be unscrewed by the chain.

  5. #5
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    The largest cog can't be right threaded because it would be unscrewed by the chain.
    Duh. Well that just makes a ton of sense. Does that mean that the 2nd largest will also be left-threaded?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,421
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know whether it is or not, but it wouldn't have to be. The big cog would act as a lock ring. All of my Reginas have been replaced with Shimano UG and HG since I learned how much better shifting is with them, even with vintage derailers and chains.

  7. #7
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    I don't know whether it is or not, but it wouldn't have to be. The big cog would act as a lock ring. All of my Reginas have been replaced with Shimano UG and HG since I learned how much better shifting is with them, even with vintage derailers and chains.
    I hear you, but I had these around and thought I'd experiment. Plus, it's hard to find narrow-range 6 spd. HG freewheels without getting pretty spendy. I really have no use for a cog larger than 24 or so.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,392
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "Does that mean that the 2nd largest will also be left-threaded?'' yes it does,

    2 LH thread into a shoulder on the body.
    there are a couple different stages of RH thread for the smaller ones,
    that thread into each other and the other side of the same flange.
    so with a freewheel vise and a couple chain-whips, you should be able to unscrew the cogs from one body. and swap them over to the other body..
    the trick is getting that last cog off..
    maybe a good soaking in solvent an re lubricating the 'bad' one will do..

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    409
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a diagram of Regina's two 6-speed configurations (scroll down) http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...geViewsIndex=1

    Inasmuch as your small cog is a 13, your body is the one pictured on the left because the one on the right must take a 12 tooth cog for the smallest.

    Usually, you need a special freewheel vise like the VAR # 365 to remove all the cogs.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/var/pages/var0029.html

    It's possible to remove all but 1 cog by using 2 chain whips. The trick is to use 1 chain whip to hold a cog stationary while using the other to unscrew another.

    You have gotten the 13 off - fine! Next, unscrew the 14, while holding the 15 with the other chain whip. Next unscrew the 15, while holding the 17. Next unscrew the 17, while holding the 19. The 4 smallest cogs are right threaded.

    Do the same thing with the other freewheel and replace the 13,14,15 and 17 with the good cogs on the good body.

    Next, it's time to replace the two large cogs. These screw on/off from the rear and are LH threads. Take the freewheel off the hub and remove the 23, while holding the 19 with the other chain whip. Take the 19 off, while holding the 17 with the other chain whip. N.B. it may be easier to break the tightness of these cogs with the freewheel still on the hub. However, you must remove the freewheel to remove the cogs.

    Do the same thing with the other freewheel. You will have to place the bad 17 on the bad body before starting. Place the good 19 and 23 cogs on the good body.

    You will be left with the good body having all good cogs, 5 bad cogs that are loose and a bad body with the 17 tooth bad cog attached. If you want to remove that last bad cog from the bad body you'll need that freewheel vise.

    Finally, there's a break in ritual. You have to ride the 19 cog hard before you ride the 23. This insures that the 19 is tight on the body before you tighten the 23. Similarly you have to ride the 17 before the 13,14,15. You ride the 15 before the 13 and 14 and you ride the 14 before the 13.

    Good luck.

  10. #10
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    "Does that mean that the 2nd largest will also be left-threaded?'' yes it does,

    2 LH thread into a shoulder on the body.
    there are a couple different stages of RH thread for the smaller ones,
    that thread into each other and the other side of the same flange.
    so with a freewheel vise and a couple chain-whips, you should be able to unscrew the cogs from one body. and swap them over to the other body..
    the trick is getting that last cog off..
    maybe a good soaking in solvent an re lubricating the 'bad' one will do..
    Thanks for that. Someone much stronger than me must have sprinted on one of these. But what I lack in strength I make up for in stubbornness.

  11. #11
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    12,982
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This thread epitomizes everything I dislike about Regina freewheels.

  12. #12
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    20,413
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yeah, it was a clever design, except that all others were more clever. Just buy a Shimano.

    Though to be fair, the Regina was quite flexible, for all its complexity. Way back in my bike shop days, a cow-orker of mine figured it all out, with all the different types of cogs they made. He did it without any documentation at all, and he catalogued and specified it all. I wonder where he is now. He has a common name, so I can't search for him on the web.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  13. #13
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SBinNYC View Post
    Here's a diagram of Regina's two 6-speed configurations (scroll down) http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...geViewsIndex=1

    Inasmuch as your small cog is a 13, your body is the one pictured on the left because the one on the right must take a 12 tooth cog for the smallest.

    Usually, you need a special freewheel vise like the VAR # 365 to remove all the cogs.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/var/pages/var0029.html

    It's possible to remove all but 1 cog by using 2 chain whips. The trick is to use 1 chain whip to hold a cog stationary while using the other to unscrew another.

    You have gotten the 13 off - fine! Next, unscrew the 14, while holding the 15 with the other chain whip. Next unscrew the 15, while holding the 17. Next unscrew the 17, while holding the 19. The 4 smallest cogs are right threaded.

    Do the same thing with the other freewheel and replace the 13,14,15 and 17 with the good cogs on the good body.

    Next, it's time to replace the two large cogs. These screw on/off from the rear and are LH threads. Take the freewheel off the hub and remove the 23, while holding the 19 with the other chain whip. Take the 19 off, while holding the 17 with the other chain whip. N.B. it may be easier to break the tightness of these cogs with the freewheel still on the hub. However, you must remove the freewheel to remove the cogs.

    Do the same thing with the other freewheel. You will have to place the bad 17 on the bad body before starting. Place the good 19 and 23 cogs on the good body.

    You will be left with the good body having all good cogs, 5 bad cogs that are loose and a bad body with the 17 tooth bad cog attached. If you want to remove that last bad cog from the bad body you'll need that freewheel vise.

    Finally, there's a break in ritual. You have to ride the 19 cog hard before you ride the 23. This insures that the 19 is tight on the body before you tighten the 23. Similarly you have to ride the 17 before the 13,14,15. You ride the 15 before the 13 and 14 and you ride the 14 before the 13.

    Good luck.
    Extremely helpful; thanks.

  14. #14
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,392
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    half spline freewheels are easier to tear down, And Sachs-Malliard were very good.
    But Sram bought out Sachs, and could care less about the French Freewheel maker in the group of companies,
    so they were thrown over the side, and they sank.
    they were the last company to allow a build to your needs kit.
    now the Asian ones which is all there is, are a take it or leave it pre assembled package.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pinole, CA, USA
    Posts
    15,421
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a Maillard 700 five speed "build to your needs kit". It even includes the removal tool. To be honest, I forgot I had it until I read the post above.

  16. #16
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's an update on where my wasted time has landed me - at least one foot in the Regina-haters camp.

    Lacking a fw vise, I tried Sheldon's tip of wrapping a cog in an old chain and clamping that in my bench vise. Broke the chain.

    Went back to using 2 chain whips. Broke one of them.

    So I now have one fw with 4 cogs removed, one fw with two cogs removed, and a broken chain whip. At least I didn't herniate a disk.

    Anyone know what I should use to re-attach the chain to my chain whip? I'm guessing something stronger than a standard chain rivet.

  17. #17
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    20,413
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    For goodness' sake, toss it and buy a Shimano freewheel. They're better anyway.

    I used Sheldon's trick, too, and it worked, but I had to fight a lot of slippage. Maybe I need a better vise.

    Freewheel vises are hard to find! And they're much nicer than chainwhips!
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  18. #18
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,392
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I beefed up my chain whips with 1/8" chain master links, they're the connecting link
    between the chain and the bar .

    + adding some leverage with a cheater pipe on the end ,
    feels like I'm exerting very little force with that added leverage.

  19. #19
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Appleton WI
    My Bikes
    Several, mostly not name brands.
    Posts
    12,982
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    I have a Maillard 700 five speed "build to your needs kit". It even includes the removal tool. To be honest, I forgot I had it until I read the post above.
    The Zeus design was the best, IMO. All the cogs used the same spline pattern and were fully interchangeable with each other except the smallest cog, which was threaded and held all the rest on. The cogs were machined so that no spacers were needed between the cogs. Assembly and disassembly were a snap. And the body would accept either a traditional Regina-type two-prong remover or the thin-walled splined Zeus remover.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    409
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
    Here's an update on where my wasted time has landed me - at least one foot in the Regina-haters camp.

    Lacking a fw vise, I tried Sheldon's tip of wrapping a cog in an old chain and clamping that in my bench vise. Broke the chain.

    Went back to using 2 chain whips. Broke one of them.

    So I now have one fw with 4 cogs removed, one fw with two cogs removed, and a broken chain whip. At least I didn't herniate a disk.

    Anyone know what I should use to re-attach the chain to my chain whip? I'm guessing something stronger than a standard chain rivet.
    Which chainwhip broke, the one trying to unscrew the cog or the one trying to prevent the freewheel from moving? Where did it break?

    The most difficult cog to unscrew will be the largest because the applied torque to its threads gets divided by the gear ratio. It does not bode well, if it broke on the 3rd smallest.

    I second the motion to use a pipe to extend the chainwhip's length. I used hose clamps to attach the pipe to the chain whip because the pipe's I.D. was too small to go over it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,372
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SBinNYC View Post
    Which chainwhip broke, the one trying to unscrew the cog or the one trying to prevent the freewheel from moving? Where did it break?

    The most difficult cog to unscrew will be the largest because the applied torque to its threads gets divided by the gear ratio. It does not bode well, if it broke on the 3rd smallest.

    I second the motion to use a pipe to extend the chainwhip's length. I used hose clamps to attach the pipe to the chain whip because the pipe's I.D. was too small to go over it.
    I can't say with certainty which whip it was that broke. What failed was the rivet that connects the wrap chain to the handle.

    I doused both fw's with liquid wrench. I'm letting them sit that way and think about their transgressions for a few days, then I'll try the pipe extension. There's one more swap I'd like to make, but it will mean removing 3 more cogs. This is an adventure.

  22. #22
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    20,413
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    One of my chain whips is a cheapo. Thank you for the warning. I won't skimp on these any more, and thanks for the half link tip. I think I even have a spare lying around!
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  23. #23
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    All 70s and 80s, only steel.
    Posts
    2,124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When I wanted to remove the cassette lockring off an old UG cassette, I was having a hell of a time loosening it with two chainwhips. I ended up going to the local bike co-op, locating two heavy-duty Park chainwhips and enlisting the help of two other guys. On guy held the wheel on top of a piece of wood; the other held one chainwhip to keep the cassette from moving, and I stepped onto the handle of the other chainwhip and put my weight on top of it (while balancing against a pole or wall). That did the trick. Not sure if this is similar to the force you need to generate, but...

    These are the kinds of things that can drive a person batty, but also one refuses to give up on. Good luck, and hopefully, we'll hear from you on the other side.

  24. #24
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    20,413
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yeah, it can be that bad. That's why leverage, and lots of it, is your best friend.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •