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Old 10-20-10, 07:28 AM   #1
lukasz
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Campagnolo 8 speed freehub to 9/10 speed? Oversized something-or-other?

Before spending 10 minutes with google I had assumed that to convert a Campy 8 speed hub to 9/10 all I would need to do is get a new freehub body, but apparently there was also a change in axle dimensions somewhere along the line? Can anyone (DaveSSS ) sort this out for me? Unfortunately I can't find a comprehensive write-up.

Does this mean that if I had an 8-speed hub, it would not really be possible to convert it to 9/10 because the axle dimensions have also changed? If this is not the case, how do I find out if a 9/10 speed freehub body is compatible with an 8-speed hub? Or does the hub need to be compatible with the body by having an oversized axle? I have no idea what I'm talking about--just throwing things out there!

I found this so far: http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Freeh...item4aa468d147 How would I be able to tell if it would work for me? I've asked the seller if he has any idea.

Last edited by lukasz; 10-20-10 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 10-20-10, 08:04 AM   #2
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Campagnolo changed the axles and the hub itself to accommodate a thicker axle back then, so the hub is oversize and the freehub body changed also to fit the new axle and bearings, the reason was because the axles tend to bend a little bit.

I'm not sure if you can put a 10 speed cassette in that hub, probably somebody knows way better than me. I know the freehub body shape was changed also at some point.

If you know how to lace wheels why don't you get a set of miche rc2 hub? they run for 85 bucks a pair online and are pretty good. Will be cheaper and better than start doing magic tricks or getting a campangolo veloce hub at ebay for example. The miche hub free hub pawls system rocks, almost no delay when coming back from coasting for example, u can service the hubs in 5 minutes and they look good. I know there is a miche primato version in black also but the only place i have seen those is at ebay.

From 50 bucks to 85 free shipping from the UK, i would go with the miche hubs.

Good luck
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Old 10-20-10, 08:26 AM   #3
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I've done some more digging and it seems that I'd be out of luck if I were dealing with 8-speed Record, but 8-speed Chorus hubs (the ones in question) might be serviceable. It seems that if I find a 10 speed Veloce hub, I can perform the swap: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-367013.html Apparently the Veloce axle size had not changed?
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Old 10-20-10, 08:55 AM   #4
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I've done it on the sealed hubs (mirage, veloce maybe even athena, I hate that they weren't marked and I can't find them in the lit.) with the steel axles but haven't tried it on Record/Chorus stuff.

What are you working with? Record? Chorus? Veloce? Athena? Don't know?

There was another thread about this about a month or so ago.

There is also this one:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-612473.html

another option is to get a new 9/10s speed hub off eBay, the sealed Mirages usually go for 10 to 30 and they polish up quite nicely .
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Old 10-20-10, 09:01 AM   #5
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These are Chorus 8-speed hubs. I am beginning to believe that I could use a Veloce or Centaur 10-speed hub to make this conversion happen. If anyone could confirm that, it would be splendid!
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Old 10-20-10, 09:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
Before spending 10 minutes with google I had assumed that to convert a Campy 8 speed hub to 9/10 all I would need to do is get a new freehub body, but apparently there was also a change in axle dimensions somewhere along the line? Can anyone (DaveSSS ) sort this out for me? Unfortunately I can't find a comprehensive write-up.

Does this mean that if I had an 8-speed hub, it would not really be possible to convert it to 9/10 because the axle dimensions have also changed? If this is not the case, how do I find out if a 9/10 speed freehub body is compatible with an 8-speed hub? Or does the hub need to be compatible with the body by having an oversized axle? I have no idea what I'm talking about--just throwing things out there!

I found this so far: http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Freeh...item4aa468d147 How would I be able to tell if it would work for me? I've asked the seller if he has any idea.
ok,thanks for your links
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Old 10-20-10, 02:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
These are Chorus 8-speed hubs. I am beginning to believe that I could use a Veloce
It might depend on vintage but probably not without changing bearings.

97-98 Chorus will definitely interchange.

Athena has a different axle and freehub body but shares all the other parts with Record (not titanium)/Chorus. You might need to swap the axle too.

Veloce/Mirage use cartridge bearings (for 1996, 2000, and 2006; I'd guess the others are the same), have hollow axles which are bigger than 10mm and therefore would have freehub bearings with larger inside diameters, and had different freehub body part numbers from Athena (which co-existed with the new over-sized axle hubs). An axle swap wouldn't work since there's no way to mount cones or adjust preload.

You may need a second 1mm RE-017 washer (although the parts diagrams show two, my 1996 Chorus hubs had one) to accommodate the 1mm longer freehub body and to re-dish the wheel.

Quote:
or Centaur 10-speed hub to make this conversion happen.
Not before 2007. 1999-2007 Centaur/Daytona/Chorus/Record rear hubs all have over-sized aluminum axles with correspondingly larger inside diameters on the freehub bearings.

After that Campagolo stamped the familiar group names on some sealed bearing crap although I couldn't tell you if they interchange.

You might also be able to use a freehub body off some of the low-end Fulcrum wheels (the more expensive ones share the Campagnolo over-sized parts), although I have no idea whether those have cartridge bearings or loose ball.

This illustrates the difference in the freehubs. Note the bearing dimensions for the late "10 speed" hub; the over-sized 9 speed hubs are made the same way.

http://branfordbike.com/articles/cas...-cogs-pg60.htm

Campagnolo has spare parts catalogs on-line for everything after C-record

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/doc/doccatid_3.jsp

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 10-20-10 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 10-20-10, 05:36 PM   #8
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So only 97-98 Chorus would work? That stinks! I am fine with doing some serious surgery--bearings, axles, etc. As long as it comes back together. In this case, would a Veloce donor hub work? I've done such a swap before, keeping nothing but the hub body, but that was to save a Shimano wheel so it was completely different. I do know about the Campy parts catalogs, but it seems to me that some part numbers change over time in cases where it is likely that the part did not change.
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Old 10-20-10, 06:06 PM   #9
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So only 97-98 Chorus would work?
Athena 9 speed and 1999 Veloce (I took a look at the 1999 catalog) might work too (2000 Veloce is different). They share a 10mm axle, the same record cones, and the same record freehub pawls but have a different axle. I have no clue if the axle needs to go too or if it's just a weight thing. People have swapped lower-end freehub bodies onto Record/Chorus and this is the most likely flavor.

I upgraded both of my rear Chorus hubs after Campagnolo quit selling my favorite 8 speed cassette but before the 9 speed 10mm axle (97/98) Chorus freehubs got expensive and then disappeared.

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That stinks! I am fine with doing some serious surgery--bearings, axles, etc. As long as it comes back together. In this case, would a Veloce donor hub work?
Unknown.

Probably 1999. Not the post 2000 years I looked at.

A sampling of Mirage and 2000+ newer Veloce have cartridge bearings and a hollow axle.

The forgings look fatter in the middle than Record/Chorus, presumably to accommodate the axle. I'd be surprised if it fit together.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 10-20-10 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 10-20-10, 06:25 PM   #10
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lukasz so far i can see you have to go with new hubs or new wheelsets, I would buy miche hubs and end with the problem right away because are not expensive, they will last and they look way better than anything campagnolo below chorus. A pair of campagnolo record hubs will cost you at least 250 bucks if you can find them used.

The cost of the fix versus new ones make the fix not worth it in my opinion.
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Old 10-20-10, 06:49 PM   #11
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Thanks for all the info. I'd have to find some pretty specific parts then. Looks like this isn't going to work out. Good thing I didn't buy the wheelset.
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Old 10-20-10, 07:59 PM   #12
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lukasz so far i can see you have to go with new hubs or new wheelsets, I would buy miche hubs and end with the problem right away because are not expensive, they will last and they look way better than anything campagnolo below chorus. A pair of campagnolo record hubs will cost you at least 250 bucks if you can find them used.

The cost of the fix versus new ones make the fix not worth it in my opinion.
Where you already own the wheels it's be cheaper, less work, but more time with a saved E-bay search to just upgrade the hubs.

New hubs will also cost $50-$70 for new spokes and a few hours of your time or $80-$100 to a wheel builder.

I've been meaning to build a set of 36 spoke 3 leading/3 trailing wheels and watching Campy hub prices:

October 11th a 1998/1999 32 hole Record hub went for $125.

October 9th a NOS pair of 1998 Athena hubs went for $149 with skewers.

Used steel axle 9 speed Chorus/Athena hubs can go for less like $100 a pair without skewers.

In all cases you should be able to put your 8 speed freehub on the donor and re-sell to recover some of your costs.

Swapping freehub bodies isn't really any more work than adjuting the bearings.
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Old 10-20-10, 09:34 PM   #13
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The issue for me now would be to be sure that a hub I sourced was of the correct vintage. Most of the time it seems that the sellers don't even know.
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Old 10-20-10, 10:46 PM   #14
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The issue for me now would be to be sure that a hub I sourced was of the correct vintage. Most of the time it seems that the sellers don't even know.
The hubs are of the right vintage when they're 9 speed and very skinny on the non drive side. Any Record/Chorus will do matching that description. A Record Titanium axle would have to go with its freehub. Like these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Choru...item2a0b1ffaae

(The seller is wrong about them being from 1994 unless the freehub body has been swapped)

The external profile is exactly like the 8-speed era. Note the skinny slot for a cone wrench on the rear hub non drive-side lock nut and the cone next to it

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMPAGNOLO-RECOR...item3cb1bbc209

They're wrong if they have a single big wrench flat on the left side instead of a the lock nut + cone configuration because that's a bolt holding the hollow axle and cartridge bearings together. Like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMPAGNOLO-MIRAG...item5d2bb518e3

Over-sized hubs are wrong. See my following post.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 10-20-10 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 10-20-10, 10:56 PM   #15
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That's actually very simple, but I don't really see the difference between your last example (oversized aluminum axle), and the correct hub in terms of diameter in the middle. You are talking about right where the oil port is, right?
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Old 10-20-10, 11:04 PM   #16
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That's actually very simple, but I don't really see the difference between your last example (oversized aluminum axle), and the correct hub in terms of diameter in the middle. You are talking about right where the oil port is, right?
Last ones were wrong - I brain farted on the date and didn't look closely at the pictures until I went to proof read.

Fat/skinny where the oil port would be. The distinctive cone cone adjusting mechanism may be a better differentiator than fat/skinny. Note the four-sided wrench flats on the lock ring (you're supposed to use your hand) and the allen head pinch bolt. Note the large exposed threads - for size comparison purposes the plug in the end of the axle has been turned down to 10mm to fit standard dropouts.

1999 Record 9 speed hub:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=110&AbsPos=28

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 10-20-10 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 10-21-10, 03:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
I've done some more digging and it seems that I'd be out of luck if I were dealing with 8-speed Record, but 8-speed Chorus hubs (the ones in question) might be serviceable. It seems that if I find a 10 speed Veloce hub, I can perform the swap: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-367013.html Apparently the Veloce axle size had not changed?
It's very easy to do. I'm one the posters on the above mentioned thread. As long as it's a steel axle it's a snap. Don't over analyze how hard it is. Campy freehubs come with pawls and springs. Make sure to get the little plastic tool that holds it all together. Good luck
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Old 10-21-10, 06:26 AM   #18
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You dont need the plastic tool, a string will do it just fine
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Old 10-21-10, 07:56 AM   #19
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Last ones were wrong - I brain farted on the date and didn't look closely at the pictures until I went to proof read.

Fat/skinny where the oil port would be. The distinctive cone cone adjusting mechanism may be a better differentiator than fat/skinny. Note the four-sided wrench flats on the lock ring (you're supposed to use your hand) and the allen head pinch bolt. Note the large exposed threads - for size comparison purposes the plug in the end of the axle has been turned down to 10mm to fit standard dropouts.

1999 Record 9 speed hub:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=110&AbsPos=28
So this would be an example of a hub that would not work, due to the assembly with the allen wrench pinch bolt? I actually have a pair of those laced to some Open Pro rims. They are lovely and I think that I paid 200 or so for the wheelset. I love the noise that the pawls make.
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Old 10-21-10, 11:19 AM   #20
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So this would be an example of a hub that would not work, due to the assembly with the allen wrench pinch bolt?
Right!

Quote:
I actually have a pair of those laced to some Open Pro rims. They are lovely and I think that I paid 200 or so for the wheelset. I love the noise that the pawls make.
I have a pair too. They are quite lovely with the Campagnolo mirror finish, especially with the cut-out Record quick release lever.
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Old 10-23-10, 08:12 AM   #21
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Well, the guy selling me the 8 speed chorus wheelset never got back to me. He wanted $100 for it, hence why I didn't want to bother spending too much on buying new hubs for it. We'll see what my wallet looks like in a week or two. Maybe I'll try to track him down anyway.

I did grab a 2007+ record hub wheelset with a claimed 750 miles or so on it yesterday for 225. Considering I couldn't find those hubs new for less than $270, I'm pretty happy with that. I'm going to take the hubs from it and lace them up to some Ambrosio Nemesis rims. Can't wait!

My next project is to see if the spokes are the correct lengths to lace the leftover parts to some Shimano 105 or Ultegra hubs and sell that to make some money back. If the builder chose the optimal lengths, then I should be in luck!
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Old 11-27-15, 04:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by lukasz View Post
Before spending 10 minutes with google I had assumed that to convert a Campy 8 speed hub to 9/10 all I would need to do is get a new freehub body, but apparently there was also a change in axle dimensions somewhere along the line? Can anyone (DaveSSS ) sort this out for me? Unfortunately I can't find a comprehensive write-up.

Does this mean that if I had an 8-speed hub, it would not really be possible to convert it to 9/10 because the axle dimensions have also changed? If this is not the case, how do I find out if a 9/10 speed freehub body is compatible with an 8-speed hub? Or does the hub need to be compatible with the body by having an oversized axle? I have no idea what I'm talking about--just throwing things out there!

I found this so far: Campagnolo Freehub body | eBay How would I be able to tell if it would work for me? I've asked the seller if he has any idea.
Hi all.

About 15 years ago there was a 8 to 9 speed conversion available for campy and it was called a Marcuzzi conversion . I'm not sure of the spelling but that's how I remember it.

I have two of them and one is currently being used on a 8 speed scirroco wheel of 97 vintage and the other is sort of spare .
The way it worked was that it had a inner conversion ring with the new ring over the top. It was a bit fiddly to set up but as you would all know campy stuff doesn't need a whole lot of maintenance .

I am quite sure they are not available any more but who knows in this world of ours !

I hope that helps .
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