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Old 10-23-10, 10:41 AM   #1
dgsca
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Microshift Brifters for DA 8 Speed

As I understand it, you can use DA 9 speed brifters with an otherwise DA 8 speed drive train.

I would like to change from DT shifters to a brake/shifter combo.

First choice would be to find 8 speed DA brifters (good ones are rare), second (?) is to locate DA 9 speed brifters (expensive but more available) and the last option it to try the 9 speed Microshift brifters.

The Misroshift brifters are available and pretty cheap by comparison. The reviews are generally positive.

So, will the Microshift 9 speed work with an otherwise DA (7400) 8 speed drive train?

Are there any options I've missed?

Thanks to all. dgsca
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Old 10-23-10, 12:40 PM   #2
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Spacing is different on the 9 speed shimano. I would keep it 8 speed so the rest of the drive train doesn.t have to be replaced as well, deraileurs, cassette,chain and crankset. You can get bar end shifters for about $100, but there are Shimano RSX, RX100 105,600, and dura ace shifters in 8 speed. I have been told many times that Dura-Ace only works with DA because of a different throw ratio but it seems to work with other Shimano shifters just fine.
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Old 10-23-10, 04:04 PM   #3
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If you're using a 74XX rd, then (according to Sheldon) you can use any Shimano or Shimano-compatible 9-sp shifters with your 8-sp cassette. I haven't tried it, nor do I now anyone who has.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
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Old 10-23-10, 06:48 PM   #4
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If that's right about using 9 speed shifters, you can use new Sora or Tiagra shifters.
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Old 10-23-10, 08:12 PM   #5
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you can use any 9speed shifters with the alternate cable routing. I did it with 9 speed microshift shifters for a few weeks and it worked fine. Eventually I swapped casettes and went to 9speed. if you look around enough, you may find some 8 speed microshift brifters.
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Old 10-23-10, 08:29 PM   #6
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Actually you can use any 9-speed Shimano shifters with your D-A 8-speed as long as you are also using the D-A 8-speed rear derailleur. Shimano 9-speed shifters have the same cable pull as 8-speed D-A. The D-A rear derailleur actuation ratio is unique.
Do not use the alternate cable routing with this setup.

It's all explained on this chart: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 Scroll down to Shimano mechs.

I don't know about the microshifter cable pull, but I do not believe you would want Shimano 8-speed microshifters. If the Shimano 9-speed Microshifter has the same cable pull as the STI 9-speed shifter it should work with your D-A 8-speed rear derailleur.

Last edited by Al1943; 10-23-10 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 10-24-10, 06:43 PM   #7
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To recap all the good information thus far: It appears I can use either a DA 8 speed brifter with the 7400 RD Or any Shimano 9 speed brifter. Following said, it would be logical the 7400 RD would operate with either of the "new" 9 speed "compatible" brifters currently on the market.

An added factor: The current rear hub is a Shimano 105 cassette that can be used as an 8 or 9, maybe even a 10. I assume thekey to how many speeds is dictated by the spacers used between the cogs.

On one of the charts from http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 it gives the pitch, or center to center dimension for various speeds. The 8 speed pitch is 4.8 mm while the 9 speed is noted as 4.35 mm. Again, I assume the pitchis dictated by the spacer thickness between the cogs.

As recall from the original stacking (its been a few yeas) there is a spacer between each cog except the bottom two. The bottom cog has a built in spacer that adds threads for the final assembly.

So, I believe it will necessary to change to a thinner spacer and/or bottom cog to bring the cassette pitch in spec with a traditional 9 speed. Will the new cassette pitch require a narrower 9 speed chain?

I'm getting close to having my head wrapped around this issue, but I'd like some conformation before I make any purchases. Thanks to all for your input.

dgsca
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Old 10-24-10, 08:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsca View Post
To recap all the good information thus far: It appears I can use either a DA 8 speed brifter with the 7400 RD Or any Shimano 9 speed brifter. Following said, it would be logical the 7400 RD would operate with either of the "new" 9 speed "compatible" brifters currently on the market.

An added factor: The current rear hub is a Shimano 105 cassette that can be used as an 8 or 9, maybe even a 10. I assume thekey to how many speeds is dictated by the spacers used between the cogs.

On one of the charts from http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 it gives the pitch, or center to center dimension for various speeds. The 8 speed pitch is 4.8 mm while the 9 speed is noted as 4.35 mm. Again, I assume the pitchis dictated by the spacer thickness between the cogs.

As recall from the original stacking (its been a few yeas) there is a spacer between each cog except the bottom two. The bottom cog has a built in spacer that adds threads for the final assembly.

So, I believe it will necessary to change to a thinner spacer and/or bottom cog to bring the cassette pitch in spec with a traditional 9 speed. Will the new cassette pitch require a narrower 9 speed chain?

I'm getting close to having my head wrapped around this issue, but I'd like some conformation before I make any purchases. Thanks to all for your input.

dgsca
I already told you, I used a microshift 9speed shifter with a shimano 2200 RD and an ultegra RD and it shifted fine for me. go for it, or just upgrade to 9 speed.
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Old 10-24-10, 08:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgsca View Post
To recap all the good information thus far: It appears I can use either a DA 8 speed brifter with the 7400 RD Or any Shimano 9 speed brifter. Following said, it would be logical the 7400 RD would operate with either of the "new" 9 speed "compatible" brifters currently on the market.

An added factor: The current rear hub is a Shimano 105 cassette that can be used as an 8 or 9, maybe even a 10. I assume thekey to how many speeds is dictated by the spacers used between the cogs.

On one of the charts from http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946 it gives the pitch, or center to center dimension for various speeds. The 8 speed pitch is 4.8 mm while the 9 speed is noted as 4.35 mm. Again, I assume the pitchis dictated by the spacer thickness between the cogs.

As recall from the original stacking (its been a few yeas) there is a spacer between each cog except the bottom two. The bottom cog has a built in spacer that adds threads for the final assembly.

So, I believe it will necessary to change to a thinner spacer and/or bottom cog to bring the cassette pitch in spec with a traditional 9 speed. Will the new cassette pitch require a narrower 9 speed chain?

I'm getting close to having my head wrapped around this issue, but I'd like some conformation before I make any purchases. Thanks to all for your input.

dgsca
I don't think you quite understand. If you use a D-A 8-speed shifter or any Shimano 9-speed shifter with your D-A 8-speed rear derailleur the pitch will be correct to match the spacing on any Shimano 8-speed cassette. In either case you will be able to use only an 8-speed cassette. With the 9-speed shifter you will have one extra unusable click stop.

If you want a 9-speed cassette you will also need 9-speed shifters, rear derailleur, and chain. With 10-speeds you will need 10-speed shifters, cassette, and chain and either 9-speed or 10-speed rear derailleur.

Re-spacing an 8-speed cassette to a 9 or 10-speed cassette is not practical and would probably cost more than a new cassette if it is even possible. Further, most cassettes have the larger cogs pinned together on a common carrier and cannot be re-spaced or used as individuals. And Shimano does not sell individual cogs.
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Old 10-24-10, 08:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cappuccino911 View Post
I already told you, I used a microshift 9speed shifter with a shimano 2200 RD and an ultegra RD and it shifted fine for me. go for it, or just upgrade to 9 speed.
He has an 8-speed D-A rear derailleur. With it a 9-speed Shimano shifter will work perfectly with the normal cable routing.
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Old 10-24-10, 09:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by cappuccino911 View Post
I already told you, I used a microshift 9speed shifter with a shimano 2200 RD and an ultegra RD and it shifted fine for me. go for it, or just upgrade to 9 speed.
Did you read the OP's post? He's using a Dura-Ace RD, NOT Shimano 2200 RD. The Dura-Ace 6/7/8-spd shifters pull less cable per click than other Shimano 6/7/8-spd shifters.

Do you understand the purpose behind Sheldon's alternate cable routing? What the alternate cable-routing does is moves the non Dura-Ace derailleur more than the Dura-Ace 6/7/8spd-shifter allows with the shorter cable-pull. So there are only TWO instances where you can use the alternate cable-routing:

1. Dura-Ace 8-spd shifters + non-Dura-Ace rear-derailleur to shift on 8-spd cluster
2. 9-spd shifter with non-Dura-Ace rear-derailleur to shift on 8-spd cluster
The OP doesn't have any of these two conditions. He's got Dura-Ace 8-spd RD. As it turns out, the shorter cable-pull of 9-spd shifters matches the cable-pull of Dura-Ace 8-spd shifters. So... this 3rd condition will work:

3. 9-spd shifter with Dura-Ace rear-derailleur shifts on 8-spd cluster
All he needs to do is get a 9-spd brifter and it'll shift his Dura-Ace RD across 8-spd cluster just fine. The 9th-gear position will just be locked out by the inner limit-screw.
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