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  1. #1
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Sora Triple --> Any Decent Double on the cheap?

    I'm not really happy with my triple. I got the bike on the cheap, a Jamis Satellite with all kinds of sweet upgrades.

    I still have some adjustment to do on it, I think, and might want to wind up using it until it wears, but I'd much rather have a double.



    What's out there as far as 8 speed compatible double FD/cranks/rings setups?

    I don't mind mismatching brifters, etc. Just want a double (preferably not a compact) setup on the cheap.

    Ideas?

    Do I need a short cage on the back when I switch?
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    well one thing i think i see is that the FD is meant for a double. please clarify what model FD

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    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    any 8+speed double will work. You won't have any problems running the midcage RD with a double. Your FD is probably a triple-compatible one, but it's hard to say, looking at the picture. You can still use the triple FD on a double, but you'll need to adjust cable tension and the limit screws. Right now, there are incredible deals on sram s300 and s350 cranksets in 172.5 length. Check out bikeman.com and amazon.

    Whatever you do, do it quick. Those low-buck truvativ cranks give me the heebie-jeebies.

    -rob

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    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reptilezs View Post
    well one thing i think i see is that the FD is meant for a double. please clarify what model FD
    how can you tell?

    More importantly, how can *I* tell?

    Is it because it does not look like this:

    Last edited by Standalone; 10-24-10 at 06:25 PM.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  5. #5
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    any 8+speed double will work. You won't have any problems running the midcage RD with a double. Your FD is probably a triple-compatible one, but it's hard to say, looking at the picture. You can still use the triple FD on a double, but you'll need to adjust cable tension and the limit screws. Right now, there are incredible deals on sram s300 and s350 cranksets in 172.5 length. Check out bikeman.com and amazon.

    Whatever you do, do it quick. Those low-buck truvativ cranks give me the heebie-jeebies.

    -rob
    A bike shop just told me today that I'd need a short cage...

    I run 175 usually. I'm 6'4" and this is a 62cm frame, so 172.5 probably isn't right for me.

    So if I just get a double shifter for my left hand and new cranks with rings that suit the current sora, I should be ok?

    Low-buck is ok with me. I only paid ~$350 for the bike.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    the cage is way clunkier on a triple fd than on a double. it's hard to see on the picture above, b/c your big ring is obscuring the FD. Go to http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...road/sora.html and look. the double FD is on the left, in the middle. The triple is toward the right, higher up. The cage is much bigger, top to bottom.

    Most satellites i've seen had triples from the factory, of course with the appropriate FD. But, i think i recall seeing a compact double version a few years back. Either way, if you're using a double, either FD will work. The double FD, however, will not work properly with a triple.

    Oh, and if you really don't care about matchiness and just want a double, pull of the right crankarm and remove the granny. Replace it, dial the limit screw to keep the chain from dropping inboard, and voila-- double crank for free.

    -rob

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    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    and, really, the advice about needing a shortcage with the double is unabashed salesmanship. The midcage RD with a double might make you look phredly, as the old-timers say, but it'll work fine.

    -rob

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    AEO
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    personally, I'd go for a tiagra crankset with ultegra bottom bracket, which shouldn't cost any more than $70+20.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
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  9. #9
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    personally, I'd go for a tiagra crankset with ultegra bottom bracket, which shouldn't cost any more than $70+20.
    Yes-- I had no idea that this was a double FD. No wonder I'm having trouble with it! Bought the bike used. The chain says shimano HG, which makes me think that it will be compatible with this:

    not sure if I need to toss the BB right away. Might as well wear it out, right? I'm not racing presently.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standalone View Post
    how can you tell?

    More importantly, how can *I* tell?

    Is it because it does not look like this:

    yes that is a triple FD. as you can see the inner cage drops down further for the small ring

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standalone View Post
    Yes-- I had no idea that this was a double FD. No wonder I'm having trouble with it! Bought the bike used. The chain says shimano HG, which makes me think that it will be compatible with this:

    not sure if I need to toss the BB right away. Might as well wear it out, right? I'm not racing presently.
    your current bb will not work with that crank

  12. #12
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    the cage is way clunkier on a triple fd than on a double. it's hard to see on the picture above, b/c your big ring is obscuring the FD. Go to http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...road/sora.html and look. the double FD is on the left, in the middle. The triple is toward the right, higher up. The cage is much bigger, top to bottom.

    Most satellites i've seen had triples from the factory, of course with the appropriate FD. But, i think i recall seeing a compact double version a few years back. Either way, if you're using a double, either FD will work. The double FD, however, will not work properly with a triple.

    Oh, and if you really don't care about matchiness and just want a double, pull of the right crankarm and remove the granny. Replace it, dial the limit screw to keep the chain from dropping inboard, and voila-- double crank for free.

    -rob
    I took a look at it, and I think it is the compact double FD you mentioned. the inner part has a straighter line down the front than the 2010 double pictured on the site, but it's nothing like the triple at all.

    It's the older Satellite, so that makes sense.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  13. #13
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reptilezs View Post
    your current bb will not work with that crank
    Thanks. What tools do I need to pull mine and install this one? I have a good stand and am ready to expand my toolkit while I'm at this. At least now that it looks like this might only be a $100 project.

    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    you will most likely need a square taper crank puller, 20 notch cartridge bb tool for removal, 16 notch external bb tool for install, shimano ht2 crank preload tool. torque wrench recomended for the pinch bolts on the new crank.

  15. #15
    AEO
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    there are only two variations of sora FDs, and that's one for double and one for triple. Shimano doesn't offer a compact specific FD.

    buy whichever you want, they're all quite good.
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=29216
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=43207
    http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/SHIMCHAR460
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    any 8+speed double will work. You won't have any problems running the midcage RD with a double. Your FD is probably a triple-compatible one, but it's hard to say, looking at the picture. You can still use the triple FD on a double, but you'll need to adjust cable tension and the limit screws.
    I was unable to adjust my Campagnolo Racing-T front derailleur so that it was able to shift to the big ring with a 50-34 compact without throwing the chain onto the right crank although it worked perfectly on a triple.

    The Racing-T derailleur worked great with the front triple crank, as did the CT compact double front derailleur I replaced it with.

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    I don't understand switching this crank if your NOT going to a compact. If it's not shifting well, it's probably because you hve that double front der on there however i wouldn't think it would make shifint from middle to big problematic just shifting between the small and middle. I would buy a $15 sora triple FD and put that on there and then just don't use the granny gear. your not going to save any significant weight switching to an el cheapo double. you would have to go to a higher end crank with outboard bearing bottom bracket to save weight

  18. #18
    AEO
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappuccino911 View Post
    I don't understand switching this crank if your NOT going to a compact. If it's not shifting well, it's probably because you hve that double front der on there however i wouldn't think it would make shifint from middle to big problematic just shifting between the small and middle. I would buy a $15 sora triple FD and put that on there and then just don't use the granny gear. your not going to save any significant weight switching to an el cheapo double. you would have to go to a higher end crank with outboard bearing bottom bracket to save weight
    I agree that there's no need to swap out cranksets, but don't underestimate the shifting performance of a tiagra or sora 2 piece crankset
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  19. #19
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappuccino911 View Post
    I don't understand switching this crank if your NOT going to a compact. If it's not shifting well, it's probably because you hve that double front der on there however i wouldn't think it would make shifint from middle to big problematic just shifting between the small and middle. I would buy a $15 sora triple FD and put that on there and then just don't use the granny gear. your not going to save any significant weight switching to an el cheapo double. you would have to go to a higher end crank with outboard bearing bottom bracket to save weight
    It's a matter of 20 years of riding DT shifting 52/39's and not really wishing to work on my shifting technique with a triple. It just doesn't feel right, and that's why I'm on my bike in the first place-- to feel good. I don't use the inner ring on ANY of my bikes, even on my fuji -- loaded with a tumbler composter and steel fence stakes in a trailer or a 40lb kid or two. I have huge legs (that is, long, not necessarily well muscled!) and get a lot of leverage. Low gears drive me nuts, and futzing with clicks to trim the FD is annoying to someone who's used to the simplicity of friction, which is trimmed by feel rather than counting clicks.

    I'm sure that with enough practice I'd get used to it, but why trouble myself if a cheap fix is out there? Besides, maintenance and adjustment should be simpler, right?
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standalone View Post
    A bike shop just told me today that I'd need a short cage...
    Get a different bike shop.

    While the short cage derailleur will look nicer you don't need it.

    I've been running a long-cage derailleur with 50-34x13-23 for years and it works great.

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    I don't quite grasp why having 3 total options (4 if you use the innermost) is so fiddly and complicated, but a double (which will generally have you shifting more than a triple) is just peaches. If you hate STI shifters, then just put your DT shifters on and be done.
    Must be flat or you don't care about your knees if you find a triple emasculating somehow...

  22. #22
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep_sky View Post
    I don't quite grasp why having 3 total options (4 if you use the innermost) is so fiddly and complicated, but a double (which will generally have you shifting more than a triple) is just peaches. If you hate STI shifters, then just put your DT shifters on and be done.
    Must be flat or you don't care about your knees if you find a triple emasculating somehow...
    My masculinity is fine on any bike, thank you very much.

    I think I explained my reasons pretty well. You're right to guess that it's fairly flat around these parts and that I'm not worried about my knees-- or rather that's what a 39T ring is for.

    I don't use the lower gears - my technique generally uses the two middle cogs in the rear and either the inner or outer ring depending on whether I'm going up or down.

    Training like this with a wider "power band" if you will has brought me good results riding in local centuries. If I train for power, riding in a slightly taller gear than is generally called for, My commute becomes basically an interval training ride as a result.

    So then upping my cadence when I feel competitive over distance leaves me fresher and faster over the course of the ride. In June I left 20 minutes after the start and was first around the course until mile 92 or 4. On a 30lb Panasonic.

    One of the great things about bikes is that they're so easily customized to what works for the individual-- even to one's retro-grouchiness, perhaps.

    All this and less fiddly too. If I wind up hating the double STI setup, then barcons it is!
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

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    i understand your argument but I still disagree. So your used to friction, thats fine. I rarely have to make any adjustments to my derailerurs and if I do it's a simple turn of a barrel adjuster one way or the other, nothing crazy. If you would put the proper FD on there your shifting issues will probably be fixed and then at that point you just simply shift between 2 and 3 and ignore the granny gear. If you really want to you can simply set the limit screw so that you can't even shift into the granny gear. The only other issue I see is that yo umention 52/39. There is a good chance that your triple is either 52/42/30 or 50/39/30 but that is easily rectified by just swappin out a chainring.

  24. #24
    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    friction shifting up front is a lovely thing. I personally find that tuning a triple with front indexing is a pain. I also find that, in road-riding situations here in the flatlands, i never ever ever ever ever have the need for a triple's granny. On trails or with a loaded bike, the granny is nice to have-- but most often, you can do without.

    Some ppl ride near hills, or they're old, or they have bad knees, or they started riding in the late 90s, when triples were all the rage, or whatever. and, for these ppl, triples make plenty of sense, even on a roadbike. But, they don't make anymore sense than a compact double and a big cassette. If you need a triple, you won't need the tight gearing of a race bike.

    but, that's not even what we're talking about in this thread. the OP wants a double, on the cheep. He also, quite wisely, wants to ditch his STI shifting. He can do this very cheap, and here's how:

    sell the STI shifters. buy the appropriate shimano barcons, or some clamp-on downtube cable stops if you really must do the DT thing. Buy a crank-puller. Pull the driveside crank arm, remove the granny, reinstall the crankarm, adjust your FD. you've converted to double for the price of a crankpuller, which you'll need again anyway. you'll have converted from sti to barcons for whatever the price difference is between used jank STIs on ebay and some barcons.

    All that being said, those are some creepy cranks. maybe some tiagras are in order.

    -rob

  25. #25
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    You can also consider compact crankset 50/34t too. I don't know if it is mandatory to swap out your current FD even if it is a triple-type. Just lock out the low limit screw.
    What you need is a new crankset and BB to ensure good Q-factor.
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