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Old 11-10-10, 09:36 AM   #1
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Fixed cup wrench for C&V Campy BB cup

I have three Campagnolo BB wrenches. Each of them has one end that functions on the adjustable cup. The open-end wrench on the other end of each of them is a headset (size) wrench. Why is it that none of these "BB tools" has a wrench end to deal with the fixed cup?

Does Campy, Park or anyone make a BB wrench sized to deal with a C&V Campy BB fixed cup?

Thanks.
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Old 11-10-10, 09:59 AM   #2
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Does C&V refer to the cups for the traditional square taper cup and cone BB sets, used from the sixties through the nineties?

If so, the 3 tools that Campagnolo sold back then, were as follows,
32mm HS/adj cup pin tool,
32mm HS/lock ring,
15mm pedal/fixed cup.

Others made similar tools in various combinations, but most offered a fixed cup tool at one end.

If you can't find one, I'm sure I have a Campy fixed cup/pedal tool, or a similar tool from either Cobra or Park. PM me if you're interested.
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Old 11-10-10, 10:08 AM   #3
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Does the Park HCW-4 fit the Campy fixed cup? Seems like that's what I've used.
It's a 36mm "box" end
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Old 11-10-10, 10:10 AM   #4
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Exactly. I think one of my Campy tools is a dup.

The point is that the open-end wrenches are 32mm. The fixed cup is about a 38mm.

This thing:



What is the normal tool for this? 38mm wrenches are not normally a part of one's standard kit. Guess I can try the auto-parts store...
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Old 11-10-10, 10:12 AM   #5
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Remeasure and make sure it's not 36mm. I don't recall any other cup tools that I own, and I've removed/installed Campys
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Old 11-10-10, 10:15 AM   #6
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It's definitely a 36mm, and I have tool (36mmFC/pedal) if you're interested. BTW- buy yourself a stack of washers big enough to fit over the spindle and bigger than the cup on the OD. You'll use them to lock the tool to the cup using the spindle bolt. While locking the tool on isn't absolutely necessary, fixed cup tools slipping was a common cause of bike mechanic hand injuries.
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Old 11-10-10, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
Does the Park HCW-4 fit the Campy fixed cup? Seems like that's what I've used.
It's a 36mm "box" end
Yes, but hasn't been made for about a decade
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Old 11-10-10, 10:29 AM   #8
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Yes, but hasn't been made for about a decade
$15.19 on Amazon, so can't be too tough to find.
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Old 11-10-10, 10:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
I have three Campagnolo BB wrenches. Each of them has one end that functions on the adjustable cup. The open-end wrench on the other end of each of them is a headset (size) wrench. Why is it that none of these "BB tools" has a wrench end to deal with the fixed cup?

Does Campy, Park or anyone make a BB wrench sized to deal with a C&V Campy BB fixed cup?

Thanks.
Yes, those tools are available. It's not the tool company's fault that you have 3 of the same tool, and none of the other tool.
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Old 11-10-10, 10:53 AM   #10
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Very helpful contribution.

...
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Old 11-10-10, 11:10 AM   #11
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Thanks to all. I'm ordering the Park tool.
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Old 11-10-10, 01:11 PM   #12
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The tool you're missing is this one:
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Old 11-10-10, 01:54 PM   #13
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Absolutely. Someday, I'll get one for the "best tools" box. But, for now, the Park tool will serve my immediate needs.

Thanks for the photo.
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Old 11-10-10, 05:38 PM   #14
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if your bikes are english threaded, you'll be better off using the sheldon method. your knuckles will thank you.

-rob
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Old 11-10-10, 06:08 PM   #15
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Hmm. Interesting. Wish I'd found that before I was nearly finished. And, I swear, I searched his site earlier.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

If starting from scratch. Still, once installed, I can see there could easily be problems in getting the nut/bolt arrangement off.

Ah, well. Next frame...
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Old 11-10-10, 06:19 PM   #16
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Since the OP mentioned a 'next frame' (and I myself am interested in this), are there any cup & cone bottom brackets with a fixed cup that has something besides wrench flats for its removal? Like maybe the splines that one finds on most cartridge bottom bracket cups? Does anyone offer replacement fixed cups with such designs?
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Old 11-10-10, 07:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_gundert05 View Post
Since the OP mentioned a 'next frame' (and I myself am interested in this), are there any cup & cone bottom brackets with a fixed cup that has something besides wrench flats for its removal? Like maybe the splines that one finds on most cartridge bottom bracket cups? Does anyone offer replacement fixed cups with such designs?
i've never seen them, but something else may exist. might make more sense to move to a cartridge bb at this point...

-rob
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Old 11-10-10, 07:22 PM   #18
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That is generally true, but there are also some BB sets that have dual adjustable cups - meaning on each side. These allow for more precise chain line adjustments, too.

But, as noted, cartridge BBs are convenient.

As it is, I like old frames and have a bunch of NOS old-style bottom brackets. But clearly, I was in need of a specific tool! My current project is the first time I've ever had to install a fixed cup. Usually, it is there and cleaned from the inside. Still learning...
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Old 11-11-10, 12:51 AM   #19
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Fixed Cup Removal Version 3.2

I just did one of these (Campagnolo fixed cup removal) from
a 1978 frame that had been installed with some sort of thread
sealing compound and been in place for 32 years.

You need to refer to:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ed+cup+removal

and read far enough into it so that you get to
the ingenious idea of using a short 1/2" or 5/8"
hex bolt and nut with washers inside the cup and
outside the tool (large enough to hold it on the cup).

You can then proceed, as did I, to hit the end of the
goddam wrench in the appropriate direction with
a deadblow hammer (if you have one) or something
of a similar nature. This is kind of the poor man's
impact wrench.

Prior to doing any of this, degrease the cup area and
hit it from both sides with PB Blaster (as seen on TV)
and some triflow and let them soak in for 20 or 30
minutes. Patience and fortitude are called for in this
particular operation. For some reason I seem to have
both the Park and the Campagnolo tools for this fixed
cup. Must be indicative of advanced age or senility.

Mike Larmer
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fixed Cup Removal 003..jpg (68.5 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg Fixed Cup Removal 001..jpg (94.2 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Fixed Cup Removal 004..jpg (90.5 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Fixed Cup Removal 002..jpg (89.7 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Fixed Cup Removal 005..jpg (91.2 KB, 61 views)

Last edited by 3alarmer; 11-14-10 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Add Photos
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Old 11-11-10, 01:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
Hmm. Interesting. Wish I'd found that before I was nearly finished. And, I swear, I searched his site earlier.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

If starting from scratch. Still, once installed, I can see there could easily be problems in getting the nut/bolt arrangement off.

Ah, well. Next frame...
I've used this method, and You're right--once you get the bolt/washer/fixed cup/nut removed from the bike, you've tightened it all down so much that they're effectively bound together. The only way I was able to get those nuts/bolts off was by re-attaching the fixed cup back on the frame and reversing the process. Perhaps using a vise and a big wrench would work, but I have no vise at my disposal, unfortunately.

Kroil is superior to PBlaster, though PBlaster's container is far more entertaining to read.

Last edited by peripatetic; 11-11-10 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 11-11-10, 05:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
I've used this method, and You're right--once you get the bolt/washer/fixed cup/nut removed from the bike, you've tightened it all down so much that they're effectively bound together. The only way I was able to get those nuts/bolts off was by re-attaching the fixed cup back on the frame and reversing the process. Perhaps using a vise and a big wrench would work, but I have no vise at my disposal, unfortunately.

Kroil is superior to PBlaster, though PBlaster's container is far more entertaining to read.
I've done this to a handful of fixed cups, and while the majority of them were torqued down really tight, i was able to extricate the hardware and the cup itself with a little bit of determination and brute force. If you tightened it down by hand, you can loosen it back up by hand, too.

-rob
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Old 01-03-11, 09:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
That is generally true, but there are also some BB sets that have dual adjustable cups - meaning on each side. These allow for more precise chain line adjustments, too.

But, as noted, cartridge BBs are convenient.

As it is, I like old frames and have a bunch of NOS old-style bottom brackets. But clearly, I was in need of a specific tool! My current project is the first time I've ever had to install a fixed cup. Usually, it is there and cleaned from the inside. Still learning...
I, too, am not sure why anyone would want to go to the old school BBs when the after-market fixed cartridge ones are so cheap and user friendly. Those old-style bottom brackets seem to give out after a lot of use...I've had three different 1980's bicycles in which those bottom brackets went bad and needed replacing...I stuck a new after-market BB in my 1987 Trek 400 about 6,000 miles ago and it's still working well.
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Old 01-03-11, 11:14 AM   #23
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I, too, am not sure why anyone would want to go to the old school BBs when the after-market fixed cartridge ones are so cheap and user friendly. Those old-style bottom brackets seem to give out after a lot of use...I've had three different 1980's bicycles in which those bottom brackets went bad and needed replacing...I stuck a new after-market BB in my 1987 Trek 400 about 6,000 miles ago and it's still working well.
A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.
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Old 01-03-11, 11:19 AM   #24
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A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.
Isn't lasting almost indefinitely a valid enough reason in and of itself? Or are you implying that in our throw away society something disposable is inherently superior to something which, with a bit of service, will stay out of the wast stream?
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Old 01-03-11, 01:09 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Isn't lasting almost indefinitely a valid enough reason in and of itself? Or are you implying that in our throw away society something disposable is inherently superior to something which, with a bit of service, will stay out of the waste stream?
This is crazy, old guy talk. Pay no attention
to it. Certainly the time and place in which I live
seems to give it little credence.

Personally, I look forward to inflatable, single
use bicycles (no doubt made from some sort
of carbon fiber/plastic composite) that we will
all (those of of left standing in the first world
anyway) be able to buy from vending machines.

Weight weenies of the future will doubtless
fill the suckers with helium.
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