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  1. #1
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    Fixed cup wrench for C&V Campy BB cup

    I have three Campagnolo BB wrenches. Each of them has one end that functions on the adjustable cup. The open-end wrench on the other end of each of them is a headset (size) wrench. Why is it that none of these "BB tools" has a wrench end to deal with the fixed cup?

    Does Campy, Park or anyone make a BB wrench sized to deal with a C&V Campy BB fixed cup?

    Thanks.
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
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    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
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  2. #2
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    Does C&V refer to the cups for the traditional square taper cup and cone BB sets, used from the sixties through the nineties?

    If so, the 3 tools that Campagnolo sold back then, were as follows,
    32mm HS/adj cup pin tool,
    32mm HS/lock ring,
    15mm pedal/fixed cup.

    Others made similar tools in various combinations, but most offered a fixed cup tool at one end.

    If you can't find one, I'm sure I have a Campy fixed cup/pedal tool, or a similar tool from either Cobra or Park. PM me if you're interested.
    FB
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  3. #3
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Does the Park HCW-4 fit the Campy fixed cup? Seems like that's what I've used.
    It's a 36mm "box" end
    72 special CNC ___________ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) __73 Holdsworth Record
    78 Raleigh Professional_____ 80 Ranson_____________ 80 unknown French (SS)
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  4. #4
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    Exactly. I think one of my Campy tools is a dup.

    The point is that the open-end wrenches are 32mm. The fixed cup is about a 38mm.

    This thing:



    What is the normal tool for this? 38mm wrenches are not normally a part of one's standard kit. Guess I can try the auto-parts store...
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  5. #5
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Remeasure and make sure it's not 36mm. I don't recall any other cup tools that I own, and I've removed/installed Campys
    72 special CNC ___________ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) __73 Holdsworth Record
    78 Raleigh Professional_____ 80 Ranson_____________ 80 unknown French (SS)
    82 Peugeot PXN10_________83 Trek 600____________ 85 Gianni Motta
    85 Trek 560______________88 Guerciotti GLX
    90 Miele Gara_____________02 Casati Dardo (g/b\k)___02 Casati Dardo (y/blk)
    03 Casati Dardo___________08 BF IRO (fixed)________10 Vassago Fisticuff (IGH)

  6. #6
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    It's definitely a 36mm, and I have tool (36mmFC/pedal) if you're interested. BTW- buy yourself a stack of washers big enough to fit over the spindle and bigger than the cup on the OD. You'll use them to lock the tool to the cup using the spindle bolt. While locking the tool on isn't absolutely necessary, fixed cup tools slipping was a common cause of bike mechanic hand injuries.
    FB
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
    Does the Park HCW-4 fit the Campy fixed cup? Seems like that's what I've used.
    It's a 36mm "box" end
    Yes, but hasn't been made for about a decade
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  8. #8
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Yes, but hasn't been made for about a decade
    $15.19 on Amazon, so can't be too tough to find.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
    I have three Campagnolo BB wrenches. Each of them has one end that functions on the adjustable cup. The open-end wrench on the other end of each of them is a headset (size) wrench. Why is it that none of these "BB tools" has a wrench end to deal with the fixed cup?

    Does Campy, Park or anyone make a BB wrench sized to deal with a C&V Campy BB fixed cup?

    Thanks.
    Yes, those tools are available. It's not the tool company's fault that you have 3 of the same tool, and none of the other tool.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  10. #10
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    Very helpful contribution.

    ...
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  11. #11
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    Thanks to all. I'm ordering the Park tool.
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  12. #12
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    The tool you're missing is this one:

  13. #13
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    Absolutely. Someday, I'll get one for the "best tools" box. But, for now, the Park tool will serve my immediate needs.

    Thanks for the photo.
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  14. #14
    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    if your bikes are english threaded, you'll be better off using the sheldon method. your knuckles will thank you.

    -rob

  15. #15
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    Hmm. Interesting. Wish I'd found that before I was nearly finished. And, I swear, I searched his site earlier.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

    If starting from scratch. Still, once installed, I can see there could easily be problems in getting the nut/bolt arrangement off.

    Ah, well. Next frame...
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  16. #16
    My name is Mike, not Cal
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    Since the OP mentioned a 'next frame' (and I myself am interested in this), are there any cup & cone bottom brackets with a fixed cup that has something besides wrench flats for its removal? Like maybe the splines that one finds on most cartridge bottom bracket cups? Does anyone offer replacement fixed cups with such designs?
    "I got my lips chewed off by a dingo!" --David Letterman

  17. #17
    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cal_gundert05 View Post
    Since the OP mentioned a 'next frame' (and I myself am interested in this), are there any cup & cone bottom brackets with a fixed cup that has something besides wrench flats for its removal? Like maybe the splines that one finds on most cartridge bottom bracket cups? Does anyone offer replacement fixed cups with such designs?
    i've never seen them, but something else may exist. might make more sense to move to a cartridge bb at this point...

    -rob

  18. #18
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    That is generally true, but there are also some BB sets that have dual adjustable cups - meaning on each side. These allow for more precise chain line adjustments, too.

    But, as noted, cartridge BBs are convenient.

    As it is, I like old frames and have a bunch of NOS old-style bottom brackets. But clearly, I was in need of a specific tool! My current project is the first time I've ever had to install a fixed cup. Usually, it is there and cleaned from the inside. Still learning...
    1959 Hilton Wrigley Connoisseur (still my favorite!)
    1963 Hetchins Mountain King (the gravel grinder)
    1971 Gitane Tour de France (The War Horse)
    1971 Gitane Super Corsa (The Garage Queen)
    1980 Ritchey Touring (The Grail Bike)
    1984 Tom Ritchey Team Competition (NOS show bike)
    (replacing the stolen 1981 Tom Ritchey Everest custom)

  19. #19
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Fixed Cup Removal Version 3.2

    I just did one of these (Campagnolo fixed cup removal) from
    a 1978 frame that had been installed with some sort of thread
    sealing compound and been in place for 32 years.

    You need to refer to:

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ed+cup+removal

    and read far enough into it so that you get to
    the ingenious idea of using a short 1/2" or 5/8"
    hex bolt and nut with washers inside the cup and
    outside the tool (large enough to hold it on the cup).

    You can then proceed, as did I, to hit the end of the
    goddam wrench in the appropriate direction with
    a deadblow hammer (if you have one) or something
    of a similar nature. This is kind of the poor man's
    impact wrench.

    Prior to doing any of this, degrease the cup area and
    hit it from both sides with PB Blaster (as seen on TV)
    and some triflow and let them soak in for 20 or 30
    minutes. Patience and fortitude are called for in this
    particular operation. For some reason I seem to have
    both the Park and the Campagnolo tools for this fixed
    cup. Must be indicative of advanced age or senility.

    Mike Larmer
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by 3alarmer; 11-14-10 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Add Photos

  20. #20
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
    Hmm. Interesting. Wish I'd found that before I was nearly finished. And, I swear, I searched his site earlier.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

    If starting from scratch. Still, once installed, I can see there could easily be problems in getting the nut/bolt arrangement off.

    Ah, well. Next frame...
    I've used this method, and You're right--once you get the bolt/washer/fixed cup/nut removed from the bike, you've tightened it all down so much that they're effectively bound together. The only way I was able to get those nuts/bolts off was by re-attaching the fixed cup back on the frame and reversing the process. Perhaps using a vise and a big wrench would work, but I have no vise at my disposal, unfortunately.

    Kroil is superior to PBlaster, though PBlaster's container is far more entertaining to read.
    Last edited by peripatetic; 11-11-10 at 12:11 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member surreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
    I've used this method, and You're right--once you get the bolt/washer/fixed cup/nut removed from the bike, you've tightened it all down so much that they're effectively bound together. The only way I was able to get those nuts/bolts off was by re-attaching the fixed cup back on the frame and reversing the process. Perhaps using a vise and a big wrench would work, but I have no vise at my disposal, unfortunately.

    Kroil is superior to PBlaster, though PBlaster's container is far more entertaining to read.
    I've done this to a handful of fixed cups, and while the majority of them were torqued down really tight, i was able to extricate the hardware and the cup itself with a little bit of determination and brute force. If you tightened it down by hand, you can loosen it back up by hand, too.

    -rob

  22. #22
    Hoosier in Exile Jose Mandez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeicaLad View Post
    That is generally true, but there are also some BB sets that have dual adjustable cups - meaning on each side. These allow for more precise chain line adjustments, too.

    But, as noted, cartridge BBs are convenient.

    As it is, I like old frames and have a bunch of NOS old-style bottom brackets. But clearly, I was in need of a specific tool! My current project is the first time I've ever had to install a fixed cup. Usually, it is there and cleaned from the inside. Still learning...
    I, too, am not sure why anyone would want to go to the old school BBs when the after-market fixed cartridge ones are so cheap and user friendly. Those old-style bottom brackets seem to give out after a lot of use...I've had three different 1980's bicycles in which those bottom brackets went bad and needed replacing...I stuck a new after-market BB in my 1987 Trek 400 about 6,000 miles ago and it's still working well.

  23. #23
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Mandez View Post
    I, too, am not sure why anyone would want to go to the old school BBs when the after-market fixed cartridge ones are so cheap and user friendly. Those old-style bottom brackets seem to give out after a lot of use...I've had three different 1980's bicycles in which those bottom brackets went bad and needed replacing...I stuck a new after-market BB in my 1987 Trek 400 about 6,000 miles ago and it's still working well.
    A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.
    Isn't lasting almost indefinitely a valid enough reason in and of itself? Or are you implying that in our throw away society something disposable is inherently superior to something which, with a bit of service, will stay out of the wast stream?
    FB
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  25. #25
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    A high quality cup-and-cone bottom bracket will last indefinitely with regular maintenance. A person may find this preferable to a modern disposable cartridge unit for a number of reasons, particularly if the frame has odd threading for which reasonably priced cartridge units are not readily available.
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Isn't lasting almost indefinitely a valid enough reason in and of itself? Or are you implying that in our throw away society something disposable is inherently superior to something which, with a bit of service, will stay out of the waste stream?
    This is crazy, old guy talk. Pay no attention
    to it. Certainly the time and place in which I live
    seems to give it little credence.

    Personally, I look forward to inflatable, single
    use bicycles (no doubt made from some sort
    of carbon fiber/plastic composite) that we will
    all (those of of left standing in the first world
    anyway) be able to buy from vending machines.

    Weight weenies of the future will doubtless
    fill the suckers with helium.
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Dvorin
    Ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has left the building. Thank you and goodnight

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