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Old 11-13-10, 09:16 AM   #1
pstock
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Problem: replacement triple crank too close to frame?

I am swapping an triple-crank Athena groupset onto a steel framed Tommasini Prestige (to replace a double Mirage set that I never found shifted well.)

The Athena group came with everything except a BB, so I planned to leave the exisitng Veloce sealed BB in place and build up on that.

At step one, I notice that the small chainring is butted right up on the RH chainstay, touching and so not spinning free.

Can I / must I adjust the position of the BB spindle to free that up?
or, is this BB just incompatible with this crankset?

Or do I just need to use a longer BB spindle? (this seems the obvious solution.)

Thanks

Peter

Last edited by pstock; 11-13-10 at 02:11 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-13-10, 09:39 AM   #2
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Triples require wider bottom brackets for exactly the reason you discovered. There should be specs on what width bottom bracket the Athena crankset requires, either in your packaging, or on the campagnolo website.
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Old 11-13-10, 10:34 AM   #3
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you need spacers.
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Old 11-13-10, 10:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by pacificaslim View Post
Triples require wider bottom brackets for exactly the reason you discovered. There should be specs on what width bottom bracket the Athena crankset requires, either in your packaging, or on the campagnolo website.
+1 In Chorus, double uses 102mm, triple uses 111mm. I would guess that Athena would be similar.
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Old 11-13-10, 10:43 AM   #5
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If it's fully in contact you will need enough spacers that you may not have enough threads engaged on the right side, may not be able to move the left side enough, and the cranks will not be evenly spaced from the center of the bike. Best to get a different bottom bracket.

Last edited by cny-bikeman; 11-13-10 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 11-13-10, 11:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstock View Post
At step one, I notice that the small chainring is butted right up on the LH chainstay, touching and so not spinning free. Peter
is this some kind of "English Drive"? but in general I agree you need a longer spindle
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Old 11-13-10, 11:30 AM   #7
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Longer+ make it Phil, they are adjustable in 2 ways,

lockrings, and pressing the spindle through the bearings.
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Old 11-13-10, 02:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
is this some kind of "English Drive"?
Opps, typo. RH chainstay.
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Old 11-13-10, 05:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstock View Post
I am swapping an triple-crank Athena groupset onto a steel framed Tommasini Prestige (to replace a double Mirage set that I never found shifted well.)

The Athena group came with everything except a BB, so I planned to leave the exisitng Veloce sealed BB in place and build up on that.

At step one, I notice that the small chainring is butted right up on the RH chainstay, touching and so not spinning free.

Can I / must I adjust the position of the BB spindle to free that up?
or, is this BB just incompatible with this crankset?

Or do I just need to use a longer BB spindle? (this seems the obvious solution.)

Thanks

Peter
Didn't realize Athena came in a triple. Here's the skinny: Daytona/Centaur and below use a 111mm symmetrical BB on the double. On a triple it's 115.5mm asymmetrical BB. Record/Chorus use a 102mm symmetrical BB on the double. On a triple it's a 111mm asymmetrical BB. The 111mm lower level symmetrical BB will give you spacing problems if you try to use it instead of the asymmetrical version.

Hope that helps. I'm thinking the Athena might use the Daytona/Centaur version seeing as Daytona replaced it.
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Old 11-14-10, 08:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
Didn't realize Athena came in a triple. Here's the skinny: Daytona/Centaur and below use a 111mm symmetrical BB on the double. On a triple it's 115.5mm asymmetrical BB. Record/Chorus use a 102mm symmetrical BB on the double. On a triple it's a 111mm asymmetrical BB. The 111mm lower level symmetrical BB will give you spacing problems if you try to use it instead of the asymmetrical version.

Hope that helps. I'm thinking the Athena might use the Daytona/Centaur version seeing as Daytona replaced it.
The triple cranks below Chorus can use either a 111mm or 115.5mm spindle, depending on the seat tube diameter. With seat tubes over 28.6mm, the 115.5 is used to move the crank further to the right, producing a chainline of 47.5mm instead of 45mm. Neither would cause the little ring to hit a chainstay. The longer spindle is needed with the larger seat tubes to allow the FD to swing far enough to the left to make the shift to the little ring.
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Old 11-14-10, 08:56 AM   #11
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Thanks for this. The seat tube on this Tommasini (in Columbus SL ) measures (per my cheap calipers outside diam ~ 29mm. So I guess that is actually 28.6mm?

the spindle on the BB measures 111mm.

So, this "should" fit? what then am I doing wrong?

while I am here, being unfamiliar with Veloce BB like this, should I not be be to remove the cartridge holding the spindle (to check if it is Asym or Sym?) without removing the RH cup? Point is, the LH cup was already loose so I was able to get it off and access that side of the BB but I cannot budge the RH cup and don't have the correct tool (are all these odd ball designs of cups and headsets actually worthwhile? or were they just an exercise in selling oddball tools?)
any suggestions here?
the Campy site seems to show the cartridge as attached to the LH cup. is that so? does the cartridge remove from the RH side?
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Old 11-14-10, 09:50 AM   #12
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reading the Campagnolo tech docs, it does seem this 111mm BB should be compatible with a triple crankset for 28.6mm tubes....

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository...cket-06-06.pdf

but it doesn't explain what to do to set it up for a triple.
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Old 11-14-10, 03:30 PM   #13
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The cartridge BB must be removed from the right side. There is nothing to do to set it up for a triple. If the LH cup was loose, that's may be the problem, allowing the spindle to move to the left. The LH cup must be tightened.

For normal installation, the BB is inserted from the right side and the right cup at least partially tightened. Install the left cup loosely, then finish up by tightening the right side first, then the left.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 11-15-10 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 11-14-10, 10:15 PM   #14
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I did reinstall the LH cup snuggly before installing the cranks. and they still were touching the chainstay.
But, I will get the correct Veloce BB cup tool, try it again and report (and at least remove the cartridge completely to inspect it fully.)

Peter
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