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Old 12-31-10, 10:47 AM   #1
tommyd49
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Can't Install 135 mm Spaced Rear Wheel in to 130 mm Spaced Frame

Hi, not 100% that this is the right forum for this, so please feel free to move if it isn't.

I have a nice Reynolds 500 frame which I have nearly finished converting in to a fixed gear commuter. However, the best rear hub I could get has a 135 mm spacing (the frame has a 130 mm spacing).

So, I got that built up in to a wheel and tried to install it. However, I can't: the frame just doesn't seem to bend enough.

Thing is, I've done this before and I really wouldn't expect to have problems bending a frame out by 5 mm.

My first thought was check the spacing. Definitely 130 mm. Then I checked to see if the two dropouts are parallel. They are. Then checked the "claws" of the dropouts are parallel. They are. Finally I checked to see if the dropouts were as wide as the axle. They are (both measured 10 mm).

Then I had an idea: maybe the axle nuts (which are those big circular ones you always get on fixed hubs) are so big that they're getting in the way. So I filed them down. But still the wheel won't slot in.

Now I've run out of ideas. I simply can't understand why I can't install this wheel. I did have a thought that maybe Reynolds 500 frames are particularly stiff. Could any one clarify this?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Last edited by tommyd49; 12-31-10 at 10:49 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-31-10, 11:06 AM   #2
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you may be able to find axle spacers with the help of the local bike shop, that allow you to remove that
extra width between the locknuts, if width is the problem..


rear axles on bikes are typically 10mm in diameter, front, 9mm.

if axle thickness is the issue, a machine shop may be able to grind flats in the ends of the axles

like those on 3 speed hubs, then the widest part would have the threads , the narrow part no threads..
axles are hardened, so grinding and frequent water quenching are needed to remove metal
with out making the steel too hot and take the temper out.


the Sheldon Brown website has a how to on spreading rear dropouts,
with a lumber pry lever, which you step or push on against the ground
and checking the symmetry with string and a tape measure.

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-31-10 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-31-10, 11:44 AM   #3
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Are there spacers you can remove to get down to 130mm (or at least a little closer)? Also, if your hub uses loose ball bearings you can get lower profile cones and skinnier locknuts. I had to do this to fit a 130mm road hub into my aluminum 126mm frame. You might have to re-dish the wheel if you only take spacers off one side.
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Old 12-31-10, 12:31 PM   #4
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Even if the wheel won't fall into the dropouts it should be able to settle down on the axle if you are able to bend the frame open enough to let the locknuts fit. Try this without any outer axle nuts to see if you can do it.

If the frame really is that stiff then I'd say your only option is to pull out the axle and by using various width cones, spacers and lock nuts work down the locknut spacing to 130 or really close to 130. For a single speed or fixed gear wheel this should not be hard at all since there's no big freewheel or freehub to limit the spacing options. And for a single speed or fixed I'd want to do this anyway just so I don't need to flex the frame each time. In fact it should be pretty much easy peasy to do this.
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Old 12-31-10, 01:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
Are there spacers you can remove to get down to 130mm (or at least a little closer)? Also, if your hub uses loose ball bearings you can get lower profile cones and skinnier locknuts. I had to do this to fit a 130mm road hub into my aluminum 126mm frame. You might have to re-dish the wheel if you only take spacers off one side.
If possible, this would be my first choice solution.

Barring that, I was not familiar with your Reynolds 500
designation, so I looked it up:

http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/rey...stubeguide.htm

which would seem to indicate the tubing
itself is not your problem, it ought to be
reasonably flexible/bendable/coldsettable.

So is your frameset some kind of ATB frame that
may have some added bracing or gussets added
to the rear triangle in anticipation of harder use?

Post some pictures of the rear triangle (each of
which is worth a thousand words).

Respectfully,
Mike Larmer
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Old 12-31-10, 03:21 PM   #6
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You have a frame that is 130mm spacing and this would be for standard or current road spacing. 135mm is mountain or hybrid bike spacing and you can come fairly close by shortening the non drive spacing and redish the wheel. If you have the original r/wheel try to swap the axle and spacers from the original wheel if you still have it.
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Old 01-01-11, 04:28 PM   #7
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What kind of rear-hub did you get? Shimano ones are easily re-configured between 130 and 135mm spacing by removing the 5mm spacer from the left side:



You can also get the coned locknuts that came on the first Dura-ace 8-spd hubs. These were 130mm and were designed to be put into frames with 126mm spacing. The conical shape helps spread out the rear-triangle as you pulled the wheel into the drop-out slots:

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Old 01-01-11, 04:37 PM   #8
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"You can also get the coned locknuts that came on the first Dura-ace 8-spd hubs. These were 130mm and were designed to be put into frames with 126mm spacing. The conical shape helps spread out the rear-triangle as you pulled the wheel into the drop-out slots:"

Heh, all these years and I never thought about fitting in a narrower frame. I thought it was just for speedier wheel changes, which I guess it was as compared to having to pull the dropouts apart each time!
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Old 01-03-11, 07:48 AM   #9
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Hi,

Finally managed to get all spacers off so the hub now has a 133-134mm spacing - but STILL I can't get the wheel in to the dropouts! I feel I'm very close now, as I can get one side of the axle in and the other just touching the dropout.

As for changing cones, unfortunately this a cartridge hub so I think the cones are brand specific. Don't think I could put regular locknuts on either - I think they use a different thread pitch. For the record, the hub I have is a Surly fixed/free flip-flop hub, first on this page: http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/.../procart21.htm

I also took some pics of the rear triange, as attached.

BTW, I really like the idea of that Dura-Ace hub - doubt you'll see anything like that on these gimmicky flip-flop hubs!
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File Type: jpg Image003.jpg (91.3 KB, 26 views)
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Old 01-03-11, 10:48 AM   #10
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I find it very surprising that you can't get bend the frame out 3-4mm to fit the hub in. Are you sure your axle is a small enough diameter that it will actually slide into the dropouts?

Back when I didn't know what I was doing, I tried forcing a 135mm wheel into a 126mm steel frame. It almost fit, but not quite.
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Old 01-03-11, 10:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
I also took some pics of the rear triange, as attached.
What would be of more help would be a photo
or two of the entire rear triangle sections, inclusive
of full length of stays and seat tube, to see if
there is some construction detail that might
account for your problem.
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Old 01-03-11, 12:36 PM   #12
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I'm not seeing that there is anything unusual about your frame. You SHOULD be able to spring the rear apart enough with only a small effort to let the axle fit unless there is some other issues going on. Steel stays are just not that hard to spread apart. I suspect you're just not expecting to have to use the sort of force you need. Speading the stays by the 3 to 4 mm's you need at this point should not be any harder than opening a somewhat tough bag of chips.

Or what I would do if this will be a permanent change is to follow the instructions on Sheldon Brown's website for cold setting (basically bending the stays but with control and checking to make it right) the frame so the spacing allows for dropping the axle right in.
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Old 01-03-11, 12:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
What kind of rear-hub did you get? Shimano ones are easily re-configured between 130 and 135mm spacing by removing the 5mm spacer from the left side

Yeah -- good luck tightening your QR's after that little trick, with a extra 5mm of AXLE STICKING OUTSIDE YOUR DROPOUTS.
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Old 01-03-11, 12:56 PM   #14
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DX-MAN, you missed the bit early on about this being a single speed axle with axle nuts and no QR skewer.
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Old 01-03-11, 02:48 PM   #15
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Yeah -- good luck tightening your QR's after that little trick, with a extra 5mm of AXLE STICKING OUTSIDE YOUR DROPOUTS.
Heh, heh... yeah and use a 141mm axle or chop the current one.
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Old 01-04-11, 09:29 AM   #16
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First of all the good news - the axle turned out to have a standard thread, so I was able to put some thinner locknuts on and install the wheel!

However, should I be bit concerned that I wasn't able to install the wheel as it was before? Here's some more pics btw:
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Old 01-04-11, 11:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyd49 View Post
First of all the good news - the axle turned out to have a standard thread, so I was able to put some thinner locknuts on and install the wheel!

However, should I be bit concerned that I wasn't able to install the wheel as it was before? Here's some more pics btw:
Great, problem solved.

Make sure you check the dish centering.

Interesting frame design. At a glance, I'd
venture your problem was the various
bridges between the seat stays and in
particular the positioning of the lowest
one.

Should make for a very sturdy and durable
rear triangle, as well as offering multiple
brake options. Just makes it harder to
pry apart. But you already knew that.
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Old 01-04-11, 10:12 PM   #18
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It's best that you got the locknut spacing to fit. But there's nothing at all that would have stopped you from spreading the frame. You just didn't pull hard enough. Still, making the stuff fit correctly is always the best option.
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