Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: Wheel Advice

  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    My Bikes
    Trek 1100
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Wheel Advice

    I have a Bianchi Via Narone 7 Sora Compact. I absolutely love this bike. The problem is, since I bought it over the summer, I have put about 1,300 miles on it and have been through about 10 broken or bent rear spokes. I am still riding on the stock wheels that came with the bike, Jalco DRX2000's with 28 spokes. I weigh in at about 235lbs. Should I look at moving up to a 32 spoke rear wheel? Anybody have an opinion on the Shimano 105/DT Swiss R450 Rear Clincher Wheel. It is reasonably priced and money is a factor right now.

  2. #2
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Camp Hill, PA
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here check my signature.
    Posts
    20,503
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    what year is the bike and did you buy it new? if it is a new bike your dealer should be looking at getting you new wheels.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo SOLd, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis SOLD, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti SOLD, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe SOLD, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  3. #3
    Senior Member Old Hammer Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Utah
    My Bikes
    Trek, Cannondale Tandem, Surly LHT
    Posts
    1,082
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Perhaps a little more info might help. Where are they breaking? Did you get them retensioned after a couple hundred miles? Are they butted?

    Often, a new machine built wheel comes in quite a bit under or unevenly tensioned. This can make for oscillation cycles at the hub/spoke intersection that can fatigue the spoke. Butted spokes tend to hold this tension more like a rubber band as compared to a straight, stiff shaft. Good 28 spoke wheels should hold up to your weight, provided you are not off-roading or hot dogging with your bike. I'd say you either have poor quality spokes, or they were improperly tensioned. That means under/over/or uneven tensioning. My 2 pennys.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    775
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    18 more broken spokes and you will have a completely hand built wheel.

    Just my opinion but unless you are riding on really good roads and are a smooth rider, 28 spokes is too few for a rear wheel for someone at your weight. I recommend a 32 spoke 3-cross rear wheel. In the mean time I would suggest detensioning your current wheel and making sure the heads of the spokes are set then retentions and true the wheel. You may find that you get more mileage and less broken spokes when doing this. There are resources that explain the process of setting the spoke heads at the hub; some call for using a punch and mallet and other processes call for bending the spokes slightly at the elbow to give them more of the proper angle to the rim. Search and read up on these issues.

    -j

  5. #5
    DOS
    DOS is offline
    Senior Member DOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Arlington, VA USA
    Posts
    1,242
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gwhoffman1 View Post
    I weigh in at about 235lbs. Should I look at moving up to a 32 spoke rear wheel? Anybody have an opinion on the Shimano 105/DT Swiss R450 Rear Clincher Wheel. It is reasonably priced and money is a factor right now.
    Yes, more spokes; I never went below 36h on rear wheel when I weighed 235. Shimano 105 is a good hub but I can't speak to the DTswiss rim.
    My Opinions > My Knowledge

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,090
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Bikes are basically engineered around rider weights of less than 200#s. I'm not saying that you're too heavy, since there's lots of safety margin, but that you should exercise some judgment whenever considering components intended for competition, or where saving weight was a design consideration.

    For some perspective, not that long ago 36 spoke wheels were the norm, with the British prefering 40rear/32 front. Over the years (with no significant improvement in the technology or materials, 32 spokes become the norm. In all fairness that's generally adequate, and I find that my 32 spoke wheels hold up about as well as my 36 spoke wheels used to. (I weigh 190#s)

    Given your weight, I'd definitely go with a set of properly built 32 spoke wheels (14g DB stainless spokes, decent hub, medium weight double wall rim). I'm not saying that well built 28 spoke wheels won't hold up, but that given that you weigh more than 20% more than the high range of design weight, buying yourself some extra margin of strength can't hurt.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think you would have less trouble with a 36 spoke rear wheel. It would hold up better and stay true longer.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,090
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    I think you would have less trouble with a 36 spoke rear wheel. It would hold up better and stay true longer.
    You're right, and I would have suggested 36h wheels, but they're rarer in prebuilt wheels, and the availability of rims is rapidly declining, so if he went to 36h the OP could be facing fewer choices down the road when time came to rebuild.

    Discounting the availability issue I'm with you 100%, at his weight more spoke strength is better.

    Another option for the OP if buying hand built wheels is 14/13g single butted spokes for the right flange and 14/15/14 or 14/16/14 butted spokes for the left. This will allow more balanced tension in the dished wheel while putting more material to the task.
    Last edited by FBinNY; 12-31-10 at 02:12 PM.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  9. #9
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    2,455
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Now that you have found the shortcomings of the factory wheels ,
    A hand built wheel will be an improvement..
    when the spoke tension has to be raised on the right side of the wheel to cram in all those sprockets
    the strength is compromised.. consider something like DT alpine, spokes on the right, 3 gages.
    hook a 13, center a 15 and a 14 where the nipple threads are.
    a 14 15 14 is probably fine for the left side..

    36r/32f pair is worth a consideration skinny race like tires like 23mm would use a thinner rim
    a wider tire say a 32 will work best on a wider rim, but I don't know the preferences clearances
    of the frame of the bike and rider.

    and if the OP does not work on their own bike, the wheel truing/tensioning
    is part of maintenance, schedule it to be checked occasionally..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-31-10 at 02:20 PM.

  10. #10
    DOS
    DOS is offline
    Senior Member DOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Arlington, VA USA
    Posts
    1,242
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    You're right, and I would have suggested 36h wheels, but they're rarer in prebuilt wheels, and the availability of rims is rapidly declining, so if he went to 36h the OP could be facing fewer choices down the road when time came to rebuild.

    Discounting the availability issue I'm with you 100%, at his weight more spoke strength is better.

    Another option for the OP if buying hand built wheels is 14/13g single butted spokes for the right flange and 14/15/14 or 14/16/14 butted spokes for the left. This will allow more balanced tension in the dished wheel while putting more material to the task.
    I would say its near impossible to find prebuilt 36h wheels; at least I haven't had any luck. Availability of 36h rims seems hit and miss. A year ago I had to wait a couple of months for 36h Mavics on back order. More recently, most sites I checked seemed to have them in stock. But, even so, they are getting harder to find.
    My Opinions > My Knowledge

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    You're right, and I would have suggested 36h wheels, but they're rarer in prebuilt wheels, and the availability of rims is rapidly declining, so if he went to 36h the OP could be facing fewer choices down the road when time came to rebuild.

    Discounting the availability issue I'm with you 100%, at his weight more spoke strength is better.

    Another option for the OP if buying hand built wheels is 14/13g single butted spokes for the right flange and 14/15 or 14/16 dutted spokes for the left. This will allow more balanced tension in the dished wheel while putting more material to the task.
    Yeah, OK. I rebuilt a set of 36 hole wheels with Mavic Open Pros that have held up very well. I checked at the DT Swiss home site and the R 450 suggested by the OP is a rim, not a wheel. It is offered as a 32 hole, sleeve jointed rim with no eyelets. I assume this means it is less expensive than their welded rims. If available I think the 36 hole OP rim (with eyelets) would be better for his rear wheel. If within budget I would recommend DT Swiss Alpine triple butted 2.0 - 1.8 - 2.34 (14 - 15 - 13 gauge) spokes, assuming the hub spoke holes are big enough, or DT Competition double butted 2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 spokes. I will not use a spoke that is smaller than 2.0 mm (14 gauge) at the hub flange. I do not disagree with your recommendations above.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DOS View Post
    I would say its near impossible to find prebuilt 36h wheels; at least I haven't had any luck. Availability of 36h rims seems hit and miss. A year ago I had to wait a couple of months for 36h Mavics on back order. More recently, most sites I checked seemed to have them in stock. But, even so, they are getting harder to find.
    Some cheap 36H, cassette hub, rear wheel options: http://www.niagaracycle.com/advanced...+700c+cassette

    If sourcing 36H rims was a concern, buy up a few now and be set for many, many years. How often is anyone going through rims after all?

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    Some cheap 36H, cassette hub, rear wheel options: http://www.niagaracycle.com/advanced...+700c+cassette

    If sourcing 36H rims was a concern, buy up a few now and be set for many, many years. How often is anyone going through rims after all?
    From what I've seen, rims are the first wheel component to fail, even before spokes. I had a DT RR 1.1 rim crack this year. Of course it was 7 years old. I rebuilt the wheel using the old spokes and aluminum alloy nipples.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    From what I've seen, rims are the first wheel component to fail, even before spokes. I had a DT RR 1.1 rim crack this year. Of course it was 7 years old. I rebuilt the wheel using the old spokes and aluminum alloy nipples.
    Which sort of proves my point. If you bought four 36H rims now (any investment of less than $100 for a budget rim like the Alex X101: http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1066), you'd be good for almost 30 years at that rate. If you used disc brakes or did most of your braking up front, you might get even better rim life.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    Which sort of proves my point. If you bought four 36H rims now (any investment of less than $100 for a budget rim like the Alex X101: http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1066), you'd be good for almost 30 years at that rate. If you used disc brakes or did most of your braking up front, you might get even better rim life.
    Yeah the price seems pretty good on those wheels even though you have to take an 8-speed cassette with the wheels. According to the site they do not offer the rims as separate components.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    Yeah the price seems pretty good on those wheels even though you have to take an 8-speed cassette with the wheels. According to the site they do not offer the rims as separate components.
    I linked to the Alex X101 rim (available separately for under $20) in my post. An 8/9 speed cassette hub will accept a 10 speed cassette too.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    I linked to the Alex X101 rim (available separately for under $20) in my post. An 8/9 speed cassette hub will accept a 10 speed cassette too.
    That's shown to be a 25 mm width rim. Too wide for most road bike applications.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,090
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    .... If within budget I would recommend DT Swiss Alpine triple butted 2.0 - 1.8 - 2.34 (14 - 15 - 13 gauge) spokes, assuming the hub spoke holes are big enough, or DT Competition double butted 2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 spokes. I will not use a spoke that is smaller than 2.0 mm (14 gauge) at the hub flange.
    You and I are basically on the same page, but I'm a firm believer in using different gauges on right and left flanges of high dish wheels. In this regard it's the center section which is most of the length of the spoke that counts. That allows more equal strain (%elongation) of all the spokes despite the tension being lower on the left. The Op should decide on the right flange spokes first, then look for a lighter butted spoke for the left, though like you I won't go below 2.0 at the hub.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,181
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    You and I are basically on the same page, but I'm a firm believer in using different gauges on right and left flanges of high dish wheels. In this regard it's the center section which is most of the length of the spoke that counts. That allows more equal strain (%elongation) of all the spokes despite the tension being lower on the left. The Op should decide on the right flange spokes first, then look for a lighter butted spoke for the left, though like you I won't go below 2.0 at the hub.
    Yes, I do that on my own wheels, 2.0-1.8-2.0 on drive side rear and 2.0-1.5-2.0 (Revolutions) on the non-drive side. But as a general rule I don't recommend Revolutions to people I don't know because they are harder to work with and relatively expensive. Your recommendation, above, for 14/13 single butted spokes on the drive side may be better than mine, but here again, the 13 gauge DT Swiss is 2.34 mm and may be too big for some hub spoke holes and the rest of the spoke is 2.0 mm so you lose some of the shock absorption advantage of double butted spokes. Not saying which is the better choice.
    Last edited by Al1943; 12-31-10 at 05:54 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    That's shown to be a 25 mm width rim. Too wide for most road bike applications.
    Ok, well I tried. I'm sure there are other options out there better suited to a road bike. I was only (originally) countering the point that no 36H pre-built wheels are available.

  21. #21
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    ,location, location...
    My Bikes
    old ones
    Posts
    9,677
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Trust No One

    My dear Mr. Hoffman:

    Your problem seems to be a fairly common one these
    days, based on my own limited experience with the
    people who wander in to the Sacramento Bike Kitchen
    for assistance.

    I recently contributed about all I want to on the topic
    on the Clydesdales forum here:

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...or-heavy-rider

    when I made an unguarded remark about how maybe
    28 spoke wheels were not such a good idea in
    general and particularly in cases where the bike is
    a little more loaded.

    It really starts to get interesting around post #35.

    While I do not believe that lower spoke wheels in and
    of themselves will cause the downfall of Western civilization
    and an end to life as we now know it, I'm not 100%
    certain they are not a part of some vast conspiracy.

    Anyway, read the thread if you get the time. Meanwhile
    +1 to all the posts that have told you regarding 32 or even
    better 36 spoke wheels (in the words of my grandmother),
    that "it couldn't hoit".

    Happy New Year,
    Mike Larmer
    Last edited by 3alarmer; 01-01-11 at 06:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  22. #22
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Oz
    My Bikes
    copy/paste links: http://velospace.org/node/36949 http://velospace.org/node/47746 http://velospace.org/node/47747
    Posts
    6,842
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IMO an OCR is worth a whole bunch of spokes.

    Pretty sure a properly-built 28h OCR wheel would have a decent safety margin for a 235lb guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    If you used disc brakes or did most of your braking up front, you might get even better rim life.
    IME the most likely thing to kill a front rim is wear from braking, which isn't the case for a rear (although it might be for a nicely-specced OCR).

    So I'd say the best way to brake is to use the rear as much as possible, saving the front for when more urgent deceleration is required.
    Last edited by Kimmo; 01-02-11 at 12:48 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    4,107
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like the hub. I built up a 36 double butted spoked wheel with a Mavic Open Sport rim for a friend who was your weight and breaking nipples on a shimano 550 rear wheel. He has over 6000 miles on the wheel with no problems.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
    IME the most likely thing to kill a front rim is wear from braking, which isn't the case for a rear (although it might be for a nicely-specced OCR).

    So I'd say the best way to brake is to use the rear as much as possible, saving the front for when more urgent deceleration is required.
    I use a front disc and brake at the front 99% of the time. Works for me

  25. #25
    we be rollin' hybridbkrdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    1,512
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If I bought a Shimano Tiagra rear hub and want to use an 8 speed cassette, would it be a cool idea to use DT Swiss Champion spokes on the right side and DT Swiss Competition spokes on the left side?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •