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  1. #1
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Rusted rear derailleur cable

    I have a rusted rear derailleur cable. The bike is a 1987 Trek 400 but the drivetrain is a new Ultegra rear derailleur operated by an indexed Dura Ace bar-end shifter.

    This is my rain/winter bike, so it will see water and road salt this time of year. I had my lbs install Jagwire a year ago. The install is pictured below. The cable runs over a guide that is below the BB, then runs into the chainstay.




    I would like to find the best way to install the cable, It seems to be rusted within the chainstay.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 01-01-11 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I have a rusted rear derailleur cable. The bike is a 1987 Trek 400 but the drivetrain is a new Ultegra rear derailleur operated by an indexed Dura Ace bar-end shifter.

    This is my rain/winter bike, so it will see water and road salt this time of year. I had my lbs install Jagwire a year ago. The install is pictured below. The cable runs over a guide that is below the BB, then runs into the chainstay.




    I would like to find the best way to install the cable, It seems to be rusted within the chainstay.
    I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you having difficulty extracting it, or are you looking for tricks to feed the cable through and find the hole?
    I've never run a cable through a chainstay like that, but I've run internal cables through top tubes. Mind you, they had the housing running through the tube as well, so the holes were a lot larger, so I'm not sure the same tricks will work. Perhaps you could use the existing cable as a lead to draw the replacement through as long as you could couple them compactly enough to fit through the hole.
    Have you considered Gore Ride on cables? They have a housing liner that covers the full length of the inner cable, covering the otherwise exposed length.
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  3. #3
    Constant tinkerer FastJake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
    Perhaps you could use the existing cable as a lead to draw the replacement through as long as you could couple them compactly enough to fit through the hole.
    I would try this, but you'll have to do it twice because if you mate them end-to-end your new cable will be going the wrong direction! There might be some sort of internal guide, but then again maybe not. I would imagine if you pull the cable out and there isn't a guide it'll be nearly impossible to replace.

    Alternatively you could run solid housing along the top tube and down the seat stay. It won't look great, but it would keep the cable out of harm's way and less prone to rusting.
    Why "derailer" is the correct way to spell the gear-change mechanism: sheldonbrown.com/derailer.html

  4. #4
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
    I would try this, but you'll have to do it twice because if you mate them end-to-end your new cable will be going the wrong direction! There might be some sort of internal guide, but then again maybe not. I would imagine if you pull the cable out and there isn't a guide it'll be nearly impossible to replace.

    Alternatively you could run solid housing along the top tube and down the seat stay. It won't look great, but it would keep the cable out of harm's way and less prone to rusting.
    You don't have to do it twice. You're discarding the old cable, so just cut it forward of the chainstay and pull the new one through.
    Another thought I had was a vacuum cleaner. It will draw a string through a tiny hole, I wonder if it would work with a cable.
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  5. #5
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    I had a very similar frame ('87 Trek 560) and feeding a new cable through the chainstay wasn't that difficult. Use a new cable with the welded end so there are no loose strands and just keep trying until it finds the exit hole. It may take a few attempts but it will work.

    As noted, you may want to use teflon coated, or at least die drawn staniless steel cables to avoid future rust. Also, spraying Frame Saver into the chainstay is worthwhile to protect the interior of the tubing.

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    DOS
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    Another option I used on a particularly difficult Talon bike with internal cable routing was to use an old bit of housing as a guide. You just cut existing cable so there are just a few inches sticking out either side of the stay. Then thread a piece of housing onto the cable so there is a little housing sicking out each side of stay; pull out old cable, using the housing in the stay as the guide, thread new cable through. Once cable is all the way through , pull housing out.
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  7. #7
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Thank you all for the recommendations.

    I'll combine the SS cable suggestion and also try to shield the cable by extending the housing.

    Any suggestions for a SS cable by brand name?

    Michael
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 01-02-11 at 10:48 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    It doesn't make sense to me to use anything but stainless cables. My LBS doesn't use or sell anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    Hi,

    Thank you all for the recommendations.

    I'll combine the SS cable suggestion and also try to shield the cable by exstending the housing.

    Any suggestions for a SS cable by brand name?

    Michael
    once you get into stainless cables, the quality is very good. any choice will be fine but jagwire slick stainless is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOS View Post
    Another option I used on a particularly difficult Talon bike with internal cable routing was to use an old bit of housing as a guide. You just cut existing cable so there are just a few inches sticking out either side of the stay. Then thread a piece of housing onto the cable so there is a little housing sicking out each side of stay; pull out old cable, using the housing in the stay as the guide, thread new cable through. Once cable is all the way through , pull housing out.
    The problem with this is that these Trek frames have holes in the stay that are too small for housing so only the inner wire goes through it.

  11. #11
    DOS
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    The problem with this is that these Trek frames have holes in the stay that are too small for housing so only the inner wire goes through it.
    Ah, that would be a problem
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  12. #12
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    The problem with this is that these Trek frames have holes in the stay that are too small for housing so only the inner wire goes through it.
    Yes, this is the real problem. The cable is binding in that last part of the housing between the RD and the chain stay.

  13. #13
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Die drawn cables wires in cable have been flattened on the outside ,
    QBP has those, in stainless steel.
    smooth = less friction
    You can also get a Teflon coated stainless cables.
    less friction too.
    same distributor, via your LBS.


    It may be picking up Iron oxide from the steel frame,

    as it passes under the BB ..

    so maybe a Teflon tube thru that guide will help.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-02-11 at 11:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Die drawn cables wires in cable have been flattened on the outside ,
    QBP has those, in stainless steel.
    smooth = less friction
    You can also get a Teflon coated stainless cables.
    less friction too.
    same distributor, via your LBS.


    It may be picking up Iron oxide from the steel frame,

    as it passes under the BB ..

    so maybe a Teflon tube thru that guide will help
    .
    That's precisely why I suggested the Gore cable sets. Great solution for this type of application.
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  15. #15
    DOS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
    That's precisely why I suggested the Gore cable sets. Great solution for this type of application.
    I think Satan invented internal cable routing.
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    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOS View Post
    I think Satan invented internal cable routing.
    It gets points for neatness though if done right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOS View Post
    I think Satan invented internal cable routing.
    its not that bad. the small black liner stuff is good for threading into the old cable to use as a guide. fits better than housing. a good magnet or pickup tool helps too. a twist and poke/prod of the inner wire will get the cable unjammed and right out the hole if you don't have the "cheater liner".

  18. #18
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Hi Dan,

    Would I attemp to install the Gore cable & housing internally within the chainstay? Or do you suggest that I just zip-tie a full length cable & housing along the frame?

    I'll consider either, this is just my winter & rain bike.

    Michael

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    One suggestion is to take a sharpened old spoke and try reaming out the holes from both ends of the chainstay. Your problems getting the cable through it might be from rust or dirt accumulation inside and the spoke could loosen and push it aside. Perhaps a compressed air blast would clean it out afterward.

    These internal stay routed cables are a PIA if the stay gets crudded up inside but work ok if it's clean.

  20. #20
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    Hi Dan,

    Would I attemp to install the Gore cable & housing internally within the chainstay? Or do you suggest that I just zip-tie a full length cable & housing along the frame?

    I'll consider either, this is just my winter & rain bike.

    Michael
    To install these, you first cut and fit the outer housings between the stops, then insert the liner, which runs the full length of the cable, even between the housing stops. The last step is to insert the cable.
    The cables are slicker even than teflon in my opinion. I don't have them on any of my bikes, but I've installed them for others.
    I use full length housing on most of mine,(only because they are gearhubs) but if that bike was mine, I don't think I'd do that except as a last resort.
    Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 01-02-11 at 06:01 PM.
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  21. #21
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    For a winter / rain bike a continuous housing makes a lot of sense as this protects the cable from the elements and removes points of access for water.

    For an indexed system high quality cables and housings and smooth cable routing is key.

    My mountain bike sees a lot of water and sticky dirt and I have continuous runs of housing to keep things clean... I run a 9 speed indexed system and it works flawlessly no matter how dirty things get.

  22. #22
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
    To install these, you first cut and fit the outer housings between the stops, then insert the liner, which runs the full length of the cable, even between the housing stops. The last step is to insert the cable.
    The cables are slicker even than teflon in my opinion. I don't have them on any of my bikes, but I've installed them for others.
    I use full length housing on most of mine,(only because they are gearhubs) but if that bike was mine, I don't think I'd do that except as a last resort.
    Hi Dan,

    I watched this video from Gore: http://www.rideoncables.com/en_us/su...t_slfsder.html

    The last question I have about this system is fitting the liner on the guide under the BB. Do I just run the liner over the guide, or do I trim the liner and install the cable directly to the guide?

    Michael

  23. #23
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    Hi Dan,

    I watched this video from Gore: http://www.rideoncables.com/en_us/su...t_slfsder.html

    The last question I have about this system is fitting the liner on the guide under the BB. Do I just run the liner over the guide, or do I trim the liner and install the cable directly to the guide?

    Michael
    That's a good question, and I don't really know the answer. I don't think I've done an under the bb install on these. I think to get the benefit of the system requires using the liner full length though, so I'm sure that's the way it's supposed to be done.
    I'd not seen that video before, thanks for the link.
    BTW, happy new year.
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  24. #24
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    For a winter / rain bike a continuous housing makes a lot of sense as this protects the cable from the elements and removes points of access for water.

    For an indexed system high quality cables and housings and smooth cable routing is key.

    My mountain bike sees a lot of water and sticky dirt and I have continuous runs of housing to keep things clean... I run a 9 speed indexed system and it works flawlessly no matter how dirty things get.
    Hi 65er,

    I'd be happy to consider the full length cable housing strategy. The bike has a full length housing for the rear brake now.

    Would I just zip tie the new cable-within-a-housing to the frame? Would I need a special attachment point to the rear drop-out area for the housing and/or cable to achieve a reliable installation?

    Michael

  25. #25
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    If you want to go full length with the housing, its best to secure the housing to the chainstay with a cable clip so the loop to the derailleur stays consistant. It's also much neater. Sturmey Archer makes casing guide clips in several sizes starting at about 15 mm up to 28.6mm. Zip ties work, but the casing clips are neater.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


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