jgrebed

How tight should a 15+ year old square taper bottom bracket feel. It is smooth, no appearant rough spots but kind of tight when turning it with just my hand (no cranks just grabbing the square taper and turning). It has been used alot but rarely in any rain or water. I live in Northern California and don't go out much in the rain.

Doug Grebe

HillRider

Most bb spindles, if properly adjusted, will have a bit of resistance to turning by hand if there is no crank attached. As long as the rotation is smooth with no tight spots and no play, it should be fine.

3alarmer 

From your description, It sounds like your
BB is good. They feel a little tight because
of the seals and because they are preloaded
when installed correctly.

davidad

It wouldn't hurt to pop off the seals and clean and relube the radial bearings.

dobber

Actually it would. Unless you've got the required picks and have the experience / dexterity you can wind up trashing the seal.

Free spinning is more an indication of adjustment, not lubrication.

fietsbob

how old? machined aluminum or a stainless steel tube holding the bearings.
have 1 of each here.

davidad

There is no adjustment in a Phil BB. The bearings are radials and you cannot preload them. The dust seals are fairly easy to remove.

jgrebed

I an not sure if it has a stainless or aluminum shell and I am not planning on removing it from the BB shell. It I have to remove it to improve chain line I will check.

3alarmer 

I am indeed in error with regard to preloading here,
having been confused by the torquing specifications
in the installation instructions:

https://www.philwood.com/philpdfs/cra...ationguide.pdf

However given that these are installed with a red
threadlocking compound
. I would venture that your advice
might be counterproductive, and I, for one, would
be very reluctant to follow it.

Good call.

pwdeegan

Actually, it's blue loctite. Red would be a whole order more difficult.

fietsbob

Blue is thread lock , red is for sealed bearing mounting etc.
generally automotive applications, machine trades
[bikes only a trace of a percentage ].
Color coded product Green. Black , and several other products larger gaps filled
higher strength.. harder to remove , without heating up the parts..

learn more product data sheets,ask at the source

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/

of course now there are several companies selling threadlock compounds .

3alarmer 

Have you ever ordered one from Phil Wood and installed it?
The stuff that came with mine was red. Now whether that
is the equivalent of Loctite red is up for grabs, but:

is definitely BS. You can quote me.

And yea, red is a whole lot more difficult, thus my point.

pwdeegan

The last three I ordered from Phil, all in the last three years including one just ten months ago, all came with blue loctite. I think the directions might also call specifically for blue too, although I'm too busy at the moment to verify that. Red loctite would seem a bit overkill.

Edit: nope, directions don't specify red or blue, just "thread locking compound."

davidad

Originally Posted by davidad
It wouldn't hurt to pop off the seals and clean and relube the radial bearings.
might be counterproductive, and I, for one, would
be very reluctant to follow it.
I have done it with no problems. I have made a crude tool to press out the beaings and press in the new ones.
My experience is that the shimano BB's last longer than the Phils and are much cheaper.

fietsbob

If you use shimanos cranks theirBBs work , Phil Has 3 taper types

and dozens plus lengths. for more options.

3alarmer 

All of this (now edited and revised) posting is true. In fact
the Bicycle trace of a percentage is no doubt due mostly
to the use of red in keeping larger diameter (think BB) sealed
bearing units in place on them.

Given that your original posting read
and the fact that you generally seem to fire off a stream of
one or two liners in a thread, I find this an entertaining use
of the edit function. I understand thread lockers, and have
both used and cursed the previous users of it on a pretty
regular basis over the years.

Bottom line: I find much of your advice to be a little dubious
and I would much appreciate it if you would refrain from
lecturing me on fact checking in the future:

Respectfully yours,
Mike Larmer

3alarmer 

In case it has been missed in all the back and
forth, my point here is that you are telling a guy
whose mechanical abilities and resources are
completely unknown, who has a total of three
postings here, to pull out his BB cartridge for
a quick once over because
The fact that it is a Phil Wood, and that by his
own description
only serves to make your suggestion the more questionable.

Do you really have that much spare time? I am
a little envious if that is so.

Regards,
Mike Larmer

fietsbob

you're on your own then , son..

HillRider

Your own link to the Loctite product literature shows this is incorrect. They list a Blue (Grade 242), Red (Grade 271) and Green (Grade 290) product all as threadlockers. Blue is the weakest, Red is much stronger and Green is a weak locker but used on preassembled bolts and nuts since it wicks into the threads.

In the past I recall a much larger range of both thread lockers and bearing/cylindrical fit retainers but the color code was always insufficient to tell what was what. Both red and green colored products were sold as both thread lockers and bearing/cylindrical fit products in a wide range of strengths. The only definitive way to tell which product was for what use was by grade number.

Incidentally here is a link to a table listing all of the Loctite products:

https://www.type2.com/library/chemicals/loctite.htm

Note that there are numerous products and strengths in each of the common colors (blue, red and green) as well as several products in colors we never see as bike mechanics.

fietsbob

20 years ago that was their reccomended uses, marketing, obviously, changes,
I don't see any of the Professional products on the site, machinists should contact a sales rep, for those.

HillRider

Yes, the Loctite web site does only list a small fraction of their product line and most of their specialty grades are available only from industrial supply houses. My point was the color-code doesn't adequately describe their product.

fietsbob

There is an industrial sub group on the website , consumer 3 comes up first.
yea probably referring to the product number code is more to the point

and footnoting the source of the code..