no motor?

I took the bearings out of the bottom bracket on my 2000 (?) Hardrock Classic and need to replace them. After looking at the mess they were in I figured the cartridge bearings would be a huge improvement over the caged bearings, and wanted to get some advice before I did this. is there any benefit to installing new caged bearings over a new cartridge beyond not having to buy the installation tool?

fietsbob

It's a whole cartridge bottom bracket assembly, like shimano's UN (whatever#)

you do need an installation tool, and the tools to take out the cup and cone BB.
so cost efficiency is favoring having the bike shop take the old stuff out , and the right length put in,
then, optionally, buy just the shimano tool for subsequent service needs.

no motor?

I already took the old bearings, the crankarms, and chainrings off. What else would need to come out? The plate for the fixed side that locates everything?

Jeff Wills

Pictures would help. Is the original a loose-bearing bottom bracket? Then you can't just plop cartridge bearings in there.

I'm with Bob: the cost efficient way to go is just replace the whole bottom bracket with a new Shimano cartridge. New cartridge BB's come complete- all you need to install is the correct tool. Removing the old cup probably requires a different tool, so have the bike shop do it. Once the old BB is out, you'll never need a tool for it again.

no motor?

Sorry, but I don't have pictures available. The original bearings are ball bearings in a cage (retainer) like this type - is that what you're referring to as loose? It looks like I should be able to put cartridge bearings on the old bottom bracket and install it.

Burton

There are actually caged bearings in cartridge systems too and what you`re coming from and what you`re installing is really what determines if its an upgrade. The one thing that makes them equal is that a total lack of maintenance makes both systems `disposable`.

I`ve been using both. Next year I`ll be re-installing the original Shimano 600 bb in my Miyata - its lighter, just as precise and just as well sealed.

Edit: OK I've looked up the make and model and if this is it : https://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/B...ssic&Type=bike

Then the most 'cost effective' solution is as several other people have stated, to just clean up the existing axle and cups, grease and replace the bearing races with new (preferably with loose bearings so you can add a couple and the BB won't collapse if the cage corrodes). Races of that quality sell for about $3 each and since you had the tools to take it apart - you won't need to buy anything to put it back together.

A cartridge system would probably be an upgrade on a $300 bike, but thats your call. The bb size isn't specified on that site, but the axle width should be marked on the axle itself. Failing that - your LBS will be able to measure it.

Capecodder

If the cups and spindle are in good shape, then just toss in a new set of caged bearings and be done.

davidad

If the axle and cups are in good shape you can just clean, regrease, and clean or replace the balls with new ones.
If not just buy a shimano cartridge and replace the old parts. The cartridge version is not servicable, but they last for tens of thousand of miles.

relyt

Loose bearings work just as well. Cages are only for ease of installation.

But for the price, the convenience of modern cartridge bottom brackets is unbeatable. No adjustment necessary (or possible). Just screw it into the frame and replace it in 5 or 10 years.

fietsbob

Loose ball bearings may let you fit in another ball or so, you stick them in the grease you put in the fixed cup, then put the axle in.
grease up the adjustable cup , stick the balls in the grease and screw it in.



Sealed bearing cartridges are using a whole different BB shell and axle.
and are not a shade tree conversion.

unscrewing the whole BB removing your last part, the fixed cup.
and screwing in one like below is probably best.

Rob P.

What you have is totally different from what you want to put in there. However, as long as the BB threads are the proper size/threads-per-inch you should be able to replace your old BB with a cartridge BB.

Take your old BB spindle to your LBS and tell them that this is what you need in the correct size:

HillRider

This posting is all factually correct but, I'm certain it is completely incomprehensible to the OP. You give him WAY too much information and do it in a writing style that's is "stream of consciousness" rather than organized.

I think most of us with a lot of experience in this field still have trouble following what you are saying because of the way you say it.

Jeff Wills

Agreed. The OP identified his bike and Burton pointed to the Bikepedia page for it. What the OP has is a conventional cup-and-spindle bottom bracket in a conventional English-threaded shell, so any talk of one-piece cranks or shade-tree engineering is irrelevant.

3alarmer 

no motor?

That's my bike, or at least what it looked like when it was new.

That's why I was thinking of changing. The extra $10-20 for a better part (like a Shimano UN54that would work with the three piece square taper cranks) that lasts longer would be worth it to me. I've accumulated enough experience adjusting bearings over the years with doing brake jobs on cars with drum brakes and rebuilding the front end on my first motorcycle.

That's what I think I'll do, and bring along the old bearings and the adjustable race. Thanks alot for all the help!

no motor?

I think I followed most of what he was referring to and feel his intentions were good, but this is a solution for a different problem as my bike has 3 piece cranks.

HillRider

Sorry if I underestimated your knowledge but in one of your postings you mentioned; "What else would need to come out? The plate for the fixed side that locates everything?"

The "plate" is properly known as the fixed cup and is often difficult to remove and is left-hand threaded in an English threaded (i.e. the most common) bottom bracket.

That comment led me to believe you were quite new at this.

no motor?

No worries, I've never serviced the bottom bracket before, but I've done most of the other basic maintenance like tune ups, derailer replacement, cable replacements and few flat tires. One of the things I really like about this forum is the wealth of knowledge from the other members, thanks for sharing some of yours.