Gerry Hull

You can use basic kitchen implements to create a crude version of the Timken load bearing test to assess the film strength of any type of lube you have.

Take a flat stainless steel knife with a smooth finish, and one stainless steel spoon, also smooth.

First get the feel of what metal-to-metal friction feels like. Lay the knife on a flat surface, place your thumb in the concavity of the spoon, and rub it across the flat surface of the knife. See what it feels like when it begins galling? Do it several times to get a feel for hownmuch thumb pressure it takes for this to happen.


Now apply a few drops of chain lube or a smear of whatever grease you wish to test.
If the chain lube has some type of diluent in it, allow it to dry out first. Now rub the spoon across the knife again with increasing pressure. When you reach the point at which it begins to gall, you have reached the limit of its film strength.

Using the particular method, I tested several different lubes and greases, listed below in order of their film strength, from greatest to least. Since there is no numeric value attached, I included them only if the difference in thumb

pressure applied was very marked and obvious.( Placing a good analog scale beneath the knife would take care of that deficit)

1. Phil wood waterproof grease and dumonde tech liquid grease were clear superiors, and doing the test blind I could not differentiate between them.

2. finish line teflon grease was a very distant second.

3. a hybrid chain lube concocted with finish line dry teflon lube and a small amount of phil wood waterproof grease dissolved in it was a close third. Roughly equivalent to the 50/50 combo of dumonde tech bcl chain lube and liquid grease that I use on long distance events.

4. finish line wet- distant fourth

5. buzzy's slippery honey bicycle grease: had less film strength than common chain
lubes. At this point i stopped the test, disassembled my wheelbearings, and removed every trace of this product, which I had liberally packed in there the day before.

6. Castrol 10w-40 motor oil.

The are several parameters this test can't measure, such as how the lubricanr behaves under heat, how fast it liquifies, how easily it gets thrown off the chain, how water-resistant it is etc etc etc., which could also be important factors.

Gerry Hull

triplebutted

My Wustoffs would hate you.

triplebutted

...btw, no wonder I always use Phil Wood.
I bought Park Grease la few years ago on mistake cause the tube looked like Phil Wood and I just grabbed it. So far so good. But I really like the green goo.

Sixty Fiver

Without being able to replicate the amount of force applied and work to ensure that the tests were equal the results are invalid.

That a motor oil deigned to work at the most extreme conditions finished last is evidence of this.

HillRider

I dunno. Motor oils are designed to operate under far different conditions of heat, pressure, flow, clearances, etc. than are greases. I expect most motor oil would fare poorly in a test designed to evaluate greases.

cal_gundert05

It seems to me that the conditions created by bicycle usage would be closer to rubbing a spoon against a knife than the extreme conditions created by car usage (grammar?). So, while the test may not be accurate in a definitive sense, it wouldn't surprise me if the results do indicate the appropriateness of the products for bicycle usage.

EDIT: HillRider beat me to it.

dwellman

I, for one, thought the film was overrated. . . Into The Woods, for example, was much-- oh grease grease, not Grease.

I think it depends on where it's going, really.

triplebutted

Hahahah, you are neurotic about your grease!

Sixty Fiver

How does one make grease ?

You start with oil and then add a variety of thickeners and water proofing agents to make sure that the resulting product stays put and resists washout... it is still the oil that provides the lubrication.

In these tests the grease will perform better because it is not being tested in an enclosed system where the action of the drive would continue to replenish and redistribute oil.

I run a number of older vintage hubs and bottom brackets that are oil lubricated and although they require more frequent upkeep which entails topping them up, they do run smoothly and are cleaner than many greased systems as oil flushes away contaminants while grease holds it is suspension.

Older SA internal hubs use oil as a lubricant... I opened up two 60 year old hubs yesterday and each one was shiny and clean inside because the properties of the oil used kept contaminants from collecting.

I can cure your neurosis...

Bicycle specific lubricants differ from general lubricants in that they are re-packaged and tend to cost five to ten times more than comparable lubricants... marine bearing grease is pretty much all a bicycle needs as it will never see the loads and temperatures of automotive wheel bearings.

Looigi

Yes. This is an ideal way of assessing the relative lubricative qualities of chicken fat, pork fat, beef fat, lard, butter, margarine, and vegetable shortening.

Gerry Hull

Certainly did not intend to offend anyone who has strong feelings about motor oil. It's not surprising that it would come last among the examples used, since its viscosity is far lower than the only other item it could be compared with- the finish line 'wet', however superior it may be to the motor oil in the authoritative spoon test, has a viscosity closer to automotive gear lube, so its not a fair comparison. I put it there as a reference.

A motor oil of excellent quality differs from a bicycle lube of excellent quality only in one respect: while the base oils used may be identical, motor oil has surfactants and other additives that cause it to run off metal surfaces easily, so that it can carry away contaminants. Without those additives (as if, say, finish line made a 10w 40 that you could purchase for a mere hundred dollars a quart), it doesn't run off, neither do the contaminants, and in no time the engine is full of sludge.

So, i suppose you could use motor oil on your chain; it will certainly wash out contaminants, yes, it will fling them, right along with the majority of the oil applied, onto your rims and your braking surfaces. At least those are the results I got when i was a 'who do those dang bike oil manufacturers think theyre foolin, squeezin some of my quaker state into a two ounce tube and chargin me ten dollars for that crap' guy. Now i'm a 'as ten dollars is not going to significantly impact my gross income I am going to try select the best product I can on a strong evidentiary basis' guy.

Anyway, what speaks most strongly for the validity of a test is whether or not the results are repeatable, by another person using the same methods. I regret I had such a limited supply of lubes to choose from. if anybody has them, and has an hour to waste and a fast answer for 'what are you doing to our silverware, dear?, i would like to see if what results would be from comparing just a few of the popular greases like phil wood, park tool, finish line, rocknroll, what have you. Also, if you have an appropriate scale on which to lay the knife and could get some kind of numeric value, that would be helpful. Since the concavity of the spoon will have an effect on how much pressure can be applied to break the film, numeric results could not be compared between people, unless they were using identical spoons, but the order of weakest to strongest products should be about the same.

By the way, before this test I was definitely Anti-phil. an overpriced retroproduct for all the fixie crowd. No teflon. iI was about to toss a tube of it with a sneer on my face. How good could it be? Pretty damn good,
apparently.

Gerry Hull

Gerry Hull

Looigi, I bet anything you are in your kitchen right now

Sixty Fiver

I use a blend of motor oil and mineral spirits on my chains.

Gerry Hull

Well, God bless you.

dwellman

Mineral Sprits FTW!

davidad

Does your wife know that you are in the kitchen using her spoons and knives for pointless tests?

dwellman

There's a lot of assumptions built into that query.

Gerry Hull

Are you kidding me? She's out of town bro. Sixty fiver is goin to give me some of his mineral spirits to help get the funny taste off before she gets back.

Sixty Fiver

Make sure you wash everything in the dishwasher... that will get you some extra points.



I'd never say that commercial lubes are not good or aren't effective but really have to look at what you are paying and whether that product offers better performance than a product that is not cycle specific.

Please add marine bearing grease to your test.

Camilo

And you know this test is meaningful to the efficiency and longevity of bicycle bearings how?

Gerry Hull

65er, Totally, thats the whole idea. It's about finding ways of validating whether something is really worth the money or not, and not being at the mercy of manufacturers claims. And, not wrecking equipment you worked your ass off to build right. One way is to look at the msds and find out exactly what is in the stuff. With grease, for example, after doing some cursory research one learns that the isoparaffinic base oils will compromise a superior lubricant (they is also a bit more expensive to refine) Since they are less tolerant of heat/cold extremes, paraffinic base oils are not ideal in automotive applications, but for bicycles, certainly. Then take a look at the msds, at those you can find at least. Phil's is easy to find. That's a plus already. What's in it, besides the thickener? 100% isoparaffinic base oil. Who's first in the authoritative spoon test? Hey, its phil again. Guess what? I believe i may use the stuff.

I wasted at least fifty bucks this year on different greases just because I liked the packaging or it smelled cool or some lbs monkey said it was awsome stuff. Now that ive been spared that expense forever, it doesnt hurt me so bad to fork over nine bucks for that ugly assed green tube with bad helvetica font of Phils waterproof grease (which actually is constituted similarly to a marine bearing grease). Cause I know that nine bucks, not fifty, is all I'm goin to have to spend on grease this year.

As a grease neurotic, however, I will never be cured.

Gerry

dwellman

What about nanotubes?

Gerry Hull

Use your head, man. I'll try to help you.

The Timken load bearing test quantifies an oil's ability to maintain a film strong enough to prevent metal to metal contact under pressure.

as ridiculous as it sounds, this little knife and spoon gig yields precisely the same data. Do it thoughtfully and methodically, and it is quite easy to tell the superiority of one product over another, much of the time. There may be other
factors beyond film strength that take priority at times, ability to withstand water washout for example. But in most cases, the ability to prevent metal to metal contact under pressure will figure pretty importantly.

Once I tried to calculate how much pressure a chain link pin undergoes when you have a 200 lb rider huffing up a grade in standing position. The resulting psi I obtained was roughly equivalent to the weight of a rolls royce silver shadow balanced on a 1 inch square high heeled shoe. So you can squirt all the WD40 on there you want to, somehow I just don't think its going to hold up.

I'm going to abandon this thread now, I don't think I have much more to offer here. If anyone actually tries this test on a fuller variety of products, or, even better, comes up with a more refined method, please start another thread, like,' Grease 2 was a way better movie' or something like that.
I really appreciate all you fellows listening and making comment.

Gerry

Rollfast

I have no problems about grease but it gets old when we get a "Grease" night at karaoke night.

Gerry Hull

Those are actually referenced in a famous TS eliot poem: 'i have measured my life in nanotubes....'

Love song of J. Alfred Prufrock i think.