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  1. #1
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    Uniglide/Hyperglide question

    Is it possible to replace a uniglide 6400 freehub with a hg freehub? If so which freehub should I replace it with, I don't mind sticking with 7 speed. I have looked this up, but I'm finding it very difficult to get a clear response.


    Sorry if this has been asked before, I'm just finding it difficult to locate a suitable answer.

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    Hyperglide was an evolutionary change from Uniglide. It's been a while but I don't think the spline changed, though the mounting system also evolved from threaded 1st sprockets to lockrings.

    The issues you have to consider are first whether the freehub body to hub interface matches (these also evolved over the years). then whether the cassette to freehub spline and mounting match. The first is the bigger hurdle because if you find a compatible freehub body, finding the matching cassette shouldn't be hard.
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    I have taken the old uniglide freehub off the 600 hub. As far as I can see there hasn't been any major changes in the design of the freehubs and there attachment to the body of the hub. Therefore the only compatibility issue may be with the fit if the old cones into the new freehub. Anyone have any experience with this?

    I am going to stick with 7 speed as the frame is bonded aluminum and I don't want to risk spreading it. Am I loosing all the advantages of the 600 hub by coupling it with a cheap freehub though? I was looking at this guy;

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-stx-...-freehub-body/

    As it is one of the few 7 speed freehubs still around. Anyone have a better alternative? I don't want to spend the same amount as a new hub either though.

  4. #4
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    I have an 8-speed Hyperglide body attached to an older (tricolor) 600 Ultegra hub shell. It works fine.

    In my experience it's pretty easy to find older better-quality used hubs and cannibalize it for the cassette body. They are generally interchangeable, but I've found that putting a "road" body on a "mountain" hub shell can cause problems with the derailleur being too close to the spokes. The cassette bodies and hub shells are not 100% cross-compatible.
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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    I think you only run into the issue where the freehub body rubs on the spokes when mixing 9/10-spd speed parts between road & MTB groups. The 10-spd cog-carrier that holds the largest cogs actually hangs over the end of the freehub body to move the largest cog closer to the spokes to gain extra space for the wider stack. This causes issues when retro-fitted to some older 9-spd parts.

    For 7-spd, all Shimano freehubs bodies with 10mm fixing-bolt will work with all Shimano hubs. I won't mention anything about 7-spd DA or previous generation AX parts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    I think you only run into the issue where the freehub body rubs on the spokes when mixing 9/10-spd speed parts between road & MTB groups. The 10-spd cog-carrier that holds the largest cogs actually hangs over the end of the freehub body to move the largest cog closer to the spokes to gain extra space for the wider stack. This causes issues when retro-fitted to some older 9-spd parts.

    For 7-spd, all Shimano freehubs bodies with 10mm fixing-bolt will work with all Shimano hubs. I won't mention anything about 7-spd DA or previous generation AX parts...

    I’ve noticed that the fixing bolts on different freehubs are different. I have a "modern" freehub which takes shimano hg cassettes and it has a larger diameter fixing bolt then the shimano 600 freehub. If the fixing bolts are different diameters then it makes sense that they arn't compatible. Is there any way of finding a compatible 7 speed freehub for the old shimano 600 hub without relying on trial and error?

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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    As long as you stay with 7-spd freehub body you won't have a problem. The modern stuff with larger fixing bolt is only 9/10-spd stuff.

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    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    I think you only run into the issue where the freehub body rubs on the spokes when mixing 9/10-spd speed parts between road & MTB groups. The 10-spd cog-carrier that holds the largest cogs actually hangs over the end of the freehub body to move the largest cog closer to the spokes to gain extra space for the wider stack. This causes issues when retro-fitted to some older 9-spd parts.

    For 7-spd, all Shimano freehubs bodies with 10mm fixing-bolt will work with all Shimano hubs. I won't mention anything about 7-spd DA or previous generation AX parts...
    Hiya, Danno!

    Nope. This was with relatively generic 8/9 speed cassette bodies on an older Deore XT shell (possibly M732 era). The hub shell had a little recess that covered the end of the cassette body. The "correct" MTB cassette body is built to space the cassette away from the spokes. If you put a "road" cassette body on it, everything fits but the big cog is too close to the spokes- the derailleur touches them.

    I found this out while on tour a while back- the cassette body failed (sheared at the bearing cup) and the replacement worked fine, until I shifted to the big cog. Then the derailleur went ting-ting-ting on the spokes. Frustrating. I ended up replacing the whole hub with an Ultegra.
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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    If you're sticking with the 126mm axle spacing, then using the narrower 7sp cassette body will keep your wheel dish down, which is good from a strength perspective. The STX-RC freehub body you linked to will fit on your hub, and will also allow use of 11-tooth cogs if you so desire.

    The usual fly in the ointment is the fit between the driveside cone/seal and the dust shield. HG hubs need the dust shield recessed, to allow the lockring to thread into the inner wall of the freehub body, so you can't just transfer the dust shield from your old non-HG body. If you could find a whole STX-series 7sp rear hub, then you could harvest the freehub body and the driveside cone together, although some adaptation of the hub spacers would probably still be necessary.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Ahh, good to know. Thanks Jeff.

    Was this XT hub-shell configured a little differently for sealing-purposes? It would appear that recessing the cassette-body into the hub a little would shield it from dirt.

  11. #11
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    Ahh, good to know. Thanks Jeff.

    Was this XT hub-shell configured a little differently for sealing-purposes? It would appear that recessing the cassette-body into the hub a little would shield it from dirt.
    I think so. One of these days I need to tear apart a few of my hubs all at once and take measurements. In my copious free time!
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    Thanks for the help guys, I have an old 9 speed HG axle that I could just rob the cone nuts off hopefully, I will buy a new 7 speed freehub then and lash it on the 600 body.



    edit;

    looking back over those posts again it seems i might still run into difficulty with cones compatibility. I'll give it a go anyway.
    Last edited by donncha; 02-25-11 at 11:02 AM.

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    Update;

    Just fitted the new hyperglide 7 speed freehub to the old shimano 600 body. Fitted perfectly, the cups fitted as well no problems. Working smoothly now.

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    Hello, i am new here, but solving "old" problems Can you (doncha) please specify exact model of the new hub, from which you have taken that freehub body? Have the same "problem" - shimano 600Hub (FH6208) and i am thinking to use freehub from Altus or Acera hub... (7 cogs would be enough..)

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    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duropero View Post
    please specify exact model of the new hub
    99.99% of any 8/9/10 speed Shimano hubs are compatible. 8/9/10, as in, they're all the same thing. Except the 10spd Dura-Ace aluminium ones with the tall splines.

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    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duropero View Post
    Hello, i am new here, but solving "old" problems Can you (doncha) please specify exact model of the new hub, from which you have taken that freehub body? Have the same "problem" - shimano 600Hub (FH6208) and i am thinking to use freehub from Altus or Acera hub... (7 cogs would be enough..)
    Nope, unfortunately for you, the mid-'80s FH-6208 600EX 7-spd Uniglide hub is the last of the 2nd-generation screw-on freehub-bodies. It cannot take the 3rd-generation bolt-on bodies that uses the 10mm hollow bolt.



    Not very easy, if even possible to find a 7-spd Hyperglide freehub-body that uses this large screw-on thread. They did exist, but in very limited numbers and I doubt anyone carries it today. Your best bet to get 7-spd Hyperglide is to get a 7-spd Hyperglide cassette and grind off the wider spline so that it'll slide onto your Uniglide freehub. Then re-use the Uniglide threaded top-cog to lock the cassette in place.

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    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
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    Oops, didn't realise the intended recipient was one of those.

    I'll go one better than filiing down the wide spline on the cogs and using a Uniglide top cog (that last is less than ideal) - you can probably* disassemble the freehub bodies (with a suitably-sized bit of metal plate) and exchange the cassette body's shell.

    It might require a bit of modification; I HG'd an old Dura-Ace AX hub that had a riveted body, but I had tp grind down the back of the shell to fit inside a lip on the flange. Also, a spacer was required because the splines went too close to the spokes, but it allows a proper HG top cog.

    *Not sure about the screw-on bodies; they might use a different system, or you might be able to secure the threaded portion in a vice (with some aluminium to protect the threads).

  18. #18
    Asi
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    I just file down the wide spline on hg cassette and be done with it. It is easier to file down the spline on the cogs than it is on the freehub, I advise against filing the freehub. Hack the cogs, a flat file and some music to keep you entertained, 10-15minutes and it's done.
    And yea, keep the last cog you have, you need it to close the cassette. (what style of uniglied you have?, a BB cone-cup locknut can be used as a lockring for uniglide if the threading is on the splines themselves, and not with a step down like dura-ace

    I too fiddle with UG cassetes and no freehub swap is possible (DA 7400, freehub conversions for pre1997 are compatible with all DA's except the 1989one, and i have that 1989 one. so i'm stuck with UG, 8speed)
    Last edited by Asi; 07-03-12 at 04:21 AM.

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    Thank you all for such quick response - i appreciate it!
    OK, probably i am going to try it with hacking some HG casette instead of doing something on the old hub and its freewheel body.. (maybe some music will help yes..)

    This will be probably my first victim: http://www.kaktusbike.sk/hg-30-altus-11-28-7-kolo-3250
    There is a minor? prob. with this casette for this purpose. My old lockring is 13T .. But the goal is to get that 28T. Than the overall gage..
    Than the distribution (distance) and count of the tooths on cogs (for the splines) How many splines will hold the cogs than.. :-/ (so it looks like i have to do some deeper research...)

    Asi was asking for a type of casette.. (i dont really know, there is number of T and "index" with arrow written on each cog..)
    And the treads on freewheel body are on the splines..
    here are pict of it if that helps..
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/pict2877x.jpg/
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/pict2875x.jpg/

    Thank you once more for your reactions, its very helpfull!
    Last edited by duropero; 07-03-12 at 07:14 AM.

  20. #20
    Asi
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    Beware that many HG cassettes have the last 3-4 cogs grouped and held by a spider. No problem as you can file the whole spline on the spider, but there is a slight bugger that your spacing will be for that amount of gears. So If you get that 7speed cluster you may have to pick 6 of them fit and use your 13t with spacer built into to lock it. that will get you 7speed if the freehub is wide enough to actually reach the threads with your lockring cog.
    If you have indexed shifter that may be a problem even if you put only 6cogs (5+ the last one), because you cannot use your spacers for the cluster of 3 cogs bolted together. But for those I hope you have friction shifters.
    Another issue may be that your hub may be not long enough so using a 7speed cassette (with 6 cogs and the last one you have) may be too long to reach the threads for the locking, but you can always remove a cog of your choice to fit.

    If you find cassettes where none of the cogs are bolted onto a spider is best.

    In the parts bin at LBS I can find any cog I like, I just scrounge some of them that are in top condition with the desired tooth count and reuse my spacers. - that cost me next to nothing (a beer or two for the 7cogs I need for a cassette as i have 8speed). - a thing to look out is not getting cogs from 9-10 cassettes as they are thinner and I'd have to compensate with an extra spacer to maintain the overall spacing for 8speed (as i use indexed shifters)

    As for how many splines are enough.. well one is enough but may feel sloppy and could damage the freehub. The rest that remain after you hack them is plenty to make any difference. (If you are keen you can file only part of that spline to match another spline like the others which are equidistant and same width all the way around)

    As for the notation "t" with an arrow and index written - that's uniglide notation. Uniglide have twisted tooth instead of ramps like hg, so rotation does matter hence the arrow pointing the correct rotation, "index" was added there to know it works with indexed shifters (as it was a novelty item to have index shifters in the late 80's), and the number followed by T is the number of "T"ooth-count of that cog.
    Last edited by Asi; 07-03-12 at 07:53 AM.

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    So i have the new HG cogs finally installed, looks somehow MTBish, heh.. Its the "CS HG41 7ac" no grouped cogs.. (Dindnt expected this bigger tooths also on spacers, but.. they are also gone...) I am stuck with 6 cogs, because that freewh. body is too short.. Nevermind, important will be to save that nice old hub... I have flipped that last cog from old casette - looks like best solution for now - will see how HG chain will respond on that last old cog.. because there is simply not enough space for 7 cogs.. Tough i manage to install 6 new and locked it (very tight maybe on two threads?) with that odl one, but.. It looks to be too close even to the dropout for derailleur.. (Maybe i could make a lockring from that old locking cog and brase down the tooths) Another task will be the chain...
    PICT2887X.jpgPICT2888X.jpg

    As for shifting.. Have this shifters that alow to switch between index and friction.. so room for experimenting also with old spacers an so on..

  22. #22
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Hmm, you may have FH-6207 hub then, 6-spd. Measure the overall outside width of the 7-spd cassette you have, the spacers look a little wide. If you don't mind using friction-shifting, I have fitted 7-spd cassettes on 6-spd freehubs by grinding down the spacers. Hold them loosely in your hand and place the side on rotary grinder wheel. The grinder will spin the spacer through your hand as it takes off a little at a time. Do it gradually and measure with calipers often. The 7-spd spacers should be 3.1mm for metal, 3.15mm for plastic ones. You can reduce them to 3.0mm for 8-spd spacing and the 7th cog should be on in regular orientation. Also grind the built-in spacer on that 1st cog as well.

    Good luck!

  23. #23
    bike whisperer Kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duropero View Post
    It looks to be too close even to the dropout for derailleur..
    Looking at that second pic, it looks like you have enough space between the last cog and the dropout.

    Shifting to that cog will probably suck because of its longer teeth, though. If that bothers you, there's always my way...

  24. #24
    Asi
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    Quote Originally Posted by duropero View Post
    Maybe i could make a lockring from that old locking cog and brase down the tooths) Another task will be the chain...

    As for shifting.. Have this shifters that alow to switch between index and friction.. so room for experimenting also with old spacers an so on..
    Congrats on your hack!

    I'd leave that cog intact (also provides a great handle with a chain whip) - For your type of UG, as I said earlier, you can use a cup-cone BB lockring. It's almost the same threading: 34.6mm x 24tpi versus 1.37"x24tpi for the BB - that leaves a gap of 0.2mm, that's 0.1mm on overall radius. - I confirm that works well and those 0.1mm are nowhere near of causing problems.

    So if you want a lockring like thing to screw on - get hold of a BB lockring - it works.
    If you want the EXACT same threading, well part number 10 out of a particular bmx hub is with the EXACT same threading: http://www.paul-lange.de/fileadmin/p...FH/FH-MX66.PDF

    How does it work with indexing? Does it work? I bet that will work perfectly with a 7spd shifter with one click blocked by the limit screws.

    To use your indexed 6speed shifter you would have to ensure the correct spacing. Now You have the 7speed spacing that is 5mm center to center (that is 5mm=thickness of the cog+a spacer). For 6speed you would need 5.3mm center to center - that means you would have to come up with a 0.3mm spacer to add to each existing spacer, or replace the space with one that is thicker by 0.3mm - you will reach just about right with the 5th cog, and then you will use the built in spacer of the threaded cog (putting it properly with the teeth side on the outside) You'll make a true 6speed spacing. As I said, now you have 7speed spacing with 6cogs.

    Don't tighten that cassette too hard for now, as I can see you are missing the spokes and rim. So you'll have to take it off when you build the wheel.

    For fiddling with spacing, always use calipers, and always measure cog+intended spacer because cogs are not always the same thickness and the spacing is about center-to-center not the spacer itself. If you cross thin with thick cogs then it's more fiddling, you have to measure with the caliper across or between 2 cogs and subtract or add half of each cog thickness (that you also measure).

    And if I brought up the subject, your spacing is 7speed 5mm, EXCEPT for the last cog. The last cog is thicker. To make good use of a 7speed index shifter you would have to file down the spacer by required amount: measure across the last cog and 5th cog and note the distance(A). Measure thickness of the threaded cog (B), and the thickness of the 5th cog (C). Calculate A-B/2-C/2="something". this "something" needs to be 5mm, and I suspect you have about 5.1-5.2mm right now. Measure your spacer (D) and you need to make this spacer to be the required size: required actual spacer size= D - ("something" - 5mm). Grind until you reach the correct size.
    Use calipers.

    Also check http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html#k7fw for different spacings.
    Last edited by Asi; 07-04-12 at 02:59 AM.

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