SurlyLaika

I've learned a lot about bike components since I bought a stock Cross Check.
For example, I don't really like the Tektro Oryx brakes. They squeal like crazy. Even after they've been adjusted at the shop, they'll start squealing after maybe two weeks. It's painful, really. I already got Kool-stop brake pads, but it hasn't made that much of a difference as for as the noise. I want switch out the Tektro's for some spendy Paul Touring canti's now and I'm hope that will make a difference.

What I'm asking, though, is for a custom build up, does spending more money really make a noticeable difference in the ride quality and longevity? I did a fantasy build this morning for a Karate Monkey with Shimano XT components(the mountain bike equivalent of Ultegra, right?), Brooks saddle and handle bar tape, and Paul brakes. It came out to about $1850, about the same as Salsa's stock cycles. Do you think there is a noticeable difference between the lower end and higher end components? For example, the difference between Shimano's Tiagra vs. Ultegra lines or the SRAM Rival vs SRAM Red for road groups or Shimano's Deore vs. Deore XT and SRAM's X.4 vs. X.0 for mountain bike groups. Do you get what you pay for?

I used wikipedia as a resource to try to understand the hierarchy of quality in Shimano and SRAM's respective product lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimano...bike_groupsets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_Corporation

goatalope

Often the difference between the higher end stuff and mid-level stuff is pretty insignificant. Like carbon instead of aluminum or a prettier finish. I've always liked 105 stuff and LX/SLX stuff. Higher end stuff is gonna be lighter and shift slightly faster, but 105/SLX always worked fine for me. I wouldn't go below 105/SLX though. I start to notice a real difference in ergonomics and quality in lower end stuff.

Don't know too much about SRAM. SRAM's new Apex line seems really ratchety and kindof clanky to me.

Burton

I know it doesn`t help that you have some of the cheapest cantilevers on the market, but I personally haven`t found a brake that just refuses to squeal under any circumstances.

And you stated that they`re OK for a couple weeks after you get the bike back from the shop, so what`ll you do if those Pauls Components also start squealing after a few months?

Yeah, components are priced differently and higher priced components normally deliver more performance, or last longer or are lighter. Sometimes a bit of all three. But the differences aren`t proportional to the price. Normally you pay a LOT more to get just a small difference.

So agreed, it won`t break the bank to go for those Pauls Components cantis - or even some Tektro CR720`s. But I`d also suggest you figure out why your brakes are OK for a couple weeks with the Tektros you have now. Could be as simple as keeping the rim and pads clean.

hybridbkrdr

There's a thread in this forum on superior shifters/inferior derailleurs etc that you can look at. I think it may still be on the first or second page by now. There's some very interesting information there.

EDIT: Wait, I found it
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...or-derailleurs

But, reading messages about the same question, I read that you DO get your money's worth. I read for example that an Alivio rear derailleur has to be adjusted more often than a Deore. The Alivio's performance will also apparently degrade more rapidly over time. And I read it's also inferior to Deore in difficult situations.

However, since I've ridden department store bicycles for years after selling an LX/DX bicycle, I can tell you there is a whole world of difference between Tourney and Deore. As far as I know, Deore/Tiagra would be the most acceptable in terms of getting a bicycle that's worth it. Then I might go with LX/SLX or XT for better quality. However, the way I look at it, if you look at crucial parts like the rear derailleur, that's where you might want to go LX or XT then Deore/Tiagra/flat bar road group (i.e. FD-R443 etc. Tiagra equivalent) front derailleur. I know people may argue 105/XT might be better for hubs and that may be the case. But, it's just from my point of view, I think there's some point most people would think they're paying way too much for a bicycle (like Tiagra hubs would be still better than 2200 without the extreme cost of 105). On the other hand, I've been on wheels for years and never really had a dream bike. I mean the LX/DX bicycle I did have was a mountain bike with really aggressive geometry and really rough on the road knobby tires. I'd just rather have a comfortable upright position riding touring bike.

SurlyLaika

Well, yea...I'm going to the bike shop tomorrow and I want to watch them fix it and tell me what they do. I messed with them a bit myself and I was able to get them to stop squealing a little bit, but I do try to keep the rims clean. I need to take a look at the brake pads, though. My guess was that the pot hole ridden roads I ride through jangle and loosen the brakes to the point that they don't make contact like they should.

operator

There's no point making generalizations on component group. Go decide on something and ask us what the difference is.

Does ultegra shift worse than dura ace? Yep
Does rival shift worse than red? Nope

Here's a good look at the first question: https://www.bikesportmichigan.com/fea...-ultegra.shtml
Red front derailleurs because of the Ti cage shifts like crap compared to the steel of the rival. Even though it's much more expensive. That's one oddball example where paying more gets you less perforamnce, not more.

SurlyLaika

well, my bike is my car and since I'm saving on gas, insurance, and tickets, I don't mind shelling out a little more for quality. From what I hear Dura-ace and XTR are the best quality but cost too much. I just wanted to size up the Tiagra and Deore components on my bike. I'm gonna just keep on using them for now, but when the time comes, I think I'd like to upgrade to 105 or Ultegra. IF I WERE TO BUY A MOUNTAIN BIKE, THOUGH, I wouldn't buy it stock. I'd want to be involved in picking out all the components! and probably go with mostly LX

Also wheel hubs seem like something worth splurging on since they make such an integral part of the riding experience.

I'm gonna go check out that thread now.

skilsaw

Brake pads that are "toed in" are supposed to not squeak.
"Toe in" means the front of the brake shoe is 1 or 2 mm closer to the rim when there is no pressure on the brake levers.

Totally loosen the brake shoe.
put a shim that is 2 mm thick under the back of the brake shoe.
with the shim in place, align the shoe on the wheel.
Squeeze the brake lever to hold the brake shoe in place, and continue to hold it.
Tighten the nut to lock the brake shoe in position.
Let go of the brake lever and take out the shim.

Repeat on other side of bike.

This procedure has stopped squeaks and squeals for me.

HillRider

I've had good performance and no squeal problems with Shimano BR-R550 canti's on my Cross Check but I do have to keep the pads toe'ed in slightly. These are modestly priced Canti's, way less than Pauls, but easy to set up and take the same replacable brake pads as V-brakes. The OEM Shimano pads they came with worked quite well and were quiet but when they wore out i replaced them with Kool Stop Salmons.

The only other alternative I know of is to replace the cantis with good quality V-brakes but that will require either dedicated longer-pull brake levers or using Travel Agents with road brake levers/brifters.

Commodus

I feel like money spent on bike components generally gets you better stuff. The thing is, sometimes it's better in ways that doesn't really matter to the user. If you ride a Surly, you probably don't care if your bike's a bit on the heavy side, for example. My Ultegra bits do shift noticeably nicer than the Tiagra stuff on my friend's cross bike, but hundreds of dollars better? I'm not sure. I do know that when I build my cross bike it'll be with Tiagra - I found it completely adequate.

So, I guess I just helped confirm what you already knew!

hybridbkrdr

I just read an interesting comment that Shimano Deore cranksets or higher (like XT) aren't even worth it because the chainrings wear out faster. Haha, that's kind of funny. I guess it would cheaper if someone chose lower end cranksets and the rest of the components on sale instead of choosing those "cheap" groupsets at bike24.com. I know the front derailleur can always be cheaper than the rear derailleur and shifters.

SurlyLaika

thanks for the recommendation on the Shimano BR-R550's. I'll check those out. I've heard, a lot...that disc brakes are better in every way...and this is my commuter so I wouldn't mind shelling out a little dough for a good set of brakes, but I'll check these out if you think they're just as good as Paul brakes.

jr59

I'm not the person to ask. I took off every thing off my CC except the seatpost, stem, bars.

I replaced the brakes with the 720's and koolstop salmon pads, the rest I went with Campy chours 10 sp, and deep vee rims laced to record hubs.
Oh yes, brooks saddle. Those changes made the bike 3lbs lighter and a whole lot more fun to ride.
Once I got the toe in correct, no more squeels!

BCRider

At some point in each component line there's a build in quality and function as the price goes up. Then at some point the function doesn't really gain much anymore but the weight goes down. And as already noted just above in some cases the life of the lighter parts may not be as long due to the lighter nature. So there's often a "best bang for the buck" grade of parts. For Shimano I'd have to agree that you gain up to around the 105 or LX level and then the next jumps up are more about saving weight than gaining a big amount in function. Mind you I've got bikes with Tiagra and the basic Deore parts on them and in both cases they work just fine. Maybe not as slick for the shifters and derailleurs at those levels as the higher end stuff but they are nicely adequite.

Getting back to your brake squeal issue.... There's no doubt that the Oryx have a rep for squealing. Likely due to a poor fit between the mount bushings and the arms that allows for the arms to jump around. But you don't need to climb as far up the braking food chain as Paul's unless you're overly keen on that sort of cost. And as mentioned it takes more than just poor brakes to produce squeal. The pads, toe in, wheels and even the fork all come into play to produce a resonant system that can be quiet or sing like a violin. Unfortunetly often it's how the brake arms present the pads to the rim that can encourage the squeal.

Try something before you give up. Currently if you're using mountain bike pads the leading portion that points to the rear is longer than the trailing portion. Try swapping the pads around so the longer portion is trailing (pointing to the front). It's very possible that by altering the resonant system in this way that the squeal will go away. Another trick that is "wrong" but has worked for me twice in the past when all other fixes failed was to toe OUT the pads slightly instead of the normal toeing in. This means that instead of the trailing tip (the front facing end) end of the pad touching first the leading edge touches down first. I know that both of these sound very wrong. But if doing either fixes your squealling problem then you're off to the races in silence. Both will result in slightly less pad life but you'll never notice it and if you can get silence out of your brakes it's worth a few hundred miles less life.

HillRider

Disc brakes are good but not an option for your bike. Your fork doesn't have the needed mounting points and isn't designed for the loads discs impose on it. Your frame could be fitted with a rear disc adapter but it's a jury rig at best. If you really want disc brakes, you need a different bike.

As to whether the Shimano BR-R550s are as "good" as Paul's I can't say but they work well at a fraction of the cost. That's enough to make me happy.