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Old 02-22-11, 08:22 AM   #1
Gerry Hull
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Rolf Prima Remorse

New set of Vigors, deep-section alloy, look great, good true, fast enough.

Then I put on the brakes. Awful shuddering. Dial in a bunch of toe-in, feels better but underlying problem still there. So I measure the rim width with calipers. Find that the rim is slightly flared at the places where the paired spokes go in; at these points its about .006-.008 thousandths wider than the rest. Result being that the brakes grab, release, grab, release seven or eight times per revolution. Now I see why the owners manual advises you to use an s-load of toe in.

The brake tracks are cnc machined, but this is obviously done before spokes are tightened.

I compressed the wide spots about .002, and this helps, but I am not a wheelbuilder and have no idea how far i can go. If this doesnt get fixed, the wheels will likely never see much use, so learning to live with it isnt an attractive option. I do however have a good ability to listen to professional instruction and a facility with any kind of tool you put in my hands, so I am calling Worldly Men of Experience here: what can be done, and how do you do it.

By the way, this 'flaring' thing is most prominent at the outer radius of the brake track. At the inner radius of the brake track, the rim width is pretty even all the way around.

many thanks for all comment

Last edited by Gerry Hull; 02-22-11 at 08:27 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 02-22-11, 09:19 AM   #2
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It seems strange that the flaring is at the outer edge of the rim, and not closer to the spokes. The outer edge is more effected by the tire pressure than the spokes which usually distort the belly of the rim. Is it definitely flared, or possibly a wobble?

If you still have recourse, I'd try returning the wheels. If you're stuck with them try gluing adhesive emery cloth strips under the brake shoes and riding around a parking lot slowly while applying the brakes gently to sand off the high spots. Work slowly because it generated a decent amount of heat. Don't get carried away you only want to take off the worst of the problem.
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Old 02-22-11, 09:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
It seems strange that the flaring is at the outer edge of the rim,
and not closer to the spokes. The outer edge is more effected by the tire pressure than
the spokes which usually distort the belly of the rim.
I have a bicycle that has obviously experienced similar
rim distortion in the past. It seems to brake quite well
now, but you can see where the rim anodizing has been
either sanded or worn off all the way around the rim
at the spoke pairs.

I got it from a very strong, go fast guy, who gave up
riding for rugby (I think). He's a sweet guy, and built
fairly densely, so to keep up with the pack he rode
on Vredestein tires pumped up to around 160psi.

I'd never seen or experienced this phenomenon prior,
and by the time the bike came to me, it was already
fixed or had just worn down through use.

I'd say FB's remedy ought to make you happy.
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Old 02-22-11, 09:47 AM   #4
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Good lord that is an amazing, elegant and simple idea. Done. Headed to hardware store now.

a mere .001-.002 of material taken off in the right place will do it. I just couldnt think how to do it.

Thanks so much
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Old 02-22-11, 11:42 PM   #5
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FB's good value.

BTW, mate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
The outer edge is more effected
Things are affected by effects ; )
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Old 02-23-11, 08:40 AM   #6
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did back wheel yesterday, this worked great. Very affective, I should say.
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Old 02-23-11, 08:51 AM   #7
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FB's good value.

BTW, mate...


Things are affected by effects ; )
Yes, thanks. I know. Consider it an effect of typing when tired or my being affected by lack of caffein.
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Old 02-23-11, 09:04 AM   #8
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I have a pair of Sun Mistral rims (modest V-shaped profile) laced to older Shimano Dura Ace hubs, 32H, 3X. These are appearance anodized rims with no brake track machining so they were initially dark gray all over.

After they had been ridden a while, the anodizing wore off directly above each spoke nipple indicating the rim had flaired slightly at those points from spoke tension. Despite this, the braking has always been smooth and free of any pulsing.
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Old 02-23-11, 10:16 AM   #9
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Vigors are simply Star Circle rims from China made with harder but lower grade alloy. They are also thinner than most rims - even at the nipple seat line. Won't be long before the eyelets crack. Simply building the things results in a pile of black or gray dust sitting on the arm of the truing stand no matter how much the seats have been lubed.

They are often used on factory produced wheels for electric bike imported to the United States - I've lost count of how many Vigors I tossed in the last year including the other labels the Star Circle rims are found under. You'll see 'em on the department store bikes as well...

=8-)
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Old 02-23-11, 10:55 AM   #10
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Have you tried to contact Rolf about this issue?

I have a set of Vigor RS that I purchased in 2007. They are my backup wheels now but I put 6000 miles on them without any issues. I did find the brake track is a little narrower than you find on most alloy wheels so you have to make sure the pad is lined up with the brake track.
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Old 02-23-11, 11:02 AM   #11
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I have a similar problem once/revolution at the rim seam. My LBS did a bit of sanding and this helped, but primarily I'm just living with it. You don't notice it on hard stops, but when you're easy up to a light you can really feel it and see the CF fork deflect each time the seam hits the pads.
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Old 02-23-11, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmess View Post
Have you tried to contact Rolf about this issue?

I have a set of Vigor RS that I purchased in 2007. They are my backup wheels now but I put 6000 miles on them without any issues. I did find the brake track is a little narrower than you find on most alloy wheels so you have to make sure the pad is lined up with the brake track.
Okay I'm confused...is this thread remorse for not staying with Rolf and going with el cheapo Vigors from China...or is this thread about remorse over choosing to go with Rolf Vigor's?

Which is it?

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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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