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  1. #1
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    10mm cone wrench for Weinmann side-pulls

    I've got a '78 Raleigh sports that I'm rebuilding and I'm running up against a problem with the brakes due to the fact that the inner locknut on the pivot bolt of these Weinmann center-pull brakes is super-thin like a cone nut. Getting the pivot bolt tension correct is a PITA without a super-thin wrench to hold the inner locknut when I tighten the cap nut on the outside.

    Nobody makes a 10mm cone wrench that I can find. I've never had good luck ordering tools from an LBS -I guess they aren't always the most helpful. I can't even find a mention of a 10mm cone wrench on the Park Tools website.

    I might just have to cut out my own wrench out of some sheet steel. I've never run into this before.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  2. #2
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    I just made one in about 5 minutes with a piece of scrap 1/8" x 3/4" flat aluminum stock by clamping it to a 10mm wrench and cutting down inside the wrench flats with a hacksaw to match the 10mm open-end wrench's inside flats. A bit of filing and a little sanding to touch it up and I've got my own custom Weinmann 10mm brake locknut wrench!

    Emergency over, nothing to see here...
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  3. #3
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    Park and others make a flat 10mm open wrench just for this job. I have a bunch (new) from both Park and Pedros, and if you're interested, will gladly sell you one for $4.00 inc. postage within the USA. This one is my favorite because it also has a 9mm and a bottle opener
    FB
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  4. #4
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    Park makes their OBW-1 Offset Brake Wrench that has 10 and 13 mm openings and is exactly what you need. Here is their listing for it:

    http://www.parktool.com/product/offset-brake-wrench

    However, take FBinNY up on his offer as you will probably have it faster.

  5. #5
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the heads-up on those wrenches but I think I'll pass. The little home-made wrench I made worked really well for the job. It's going into my bike tool box for the next time. The brakes are all back together and awaiting the frame to be finished dipping in the oxalic.

    Dipping is going to take forever as this thing has a really crappy paint job from Nottingham and it's just covered in rusty haze as well as many many chips. The bike still has its stock pedals and what looks like the stock brake pads with almost no wear on them (but they sure had a bunch of rust!) But in that little time that this bike was ever rode in the last 23 years it sure got really chipped, and rusted in placed it didn't even chip or get scratched in. The quality of paint isn't up to that which I'm used to on the older Raleighs for sure
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  6. #6
    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    Dipping is going to take forever? Depending on the concentration you use, it takes 24 to 36 hours. But of course, you have to strip everything off the frame first.

  7. #7
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    Glad your home made wrench works. Perhaps you could not find the correct tool because you were searching for 10mm cone wrench when you should be searching for a 10mm offset wrench. THere is really no way you would have known this without knowing it first

  8. #8
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Oh, it's apart!

    Everything but the wheels. I plan on pulling the front hub apart and the rear hub sounded OK but loud so I figured I'd oil it and go. Oil made it start to act wonky. What's up with that? Looks like I'll have to rip apart the S-A guts and see what is going on in there.

    Dipping is taking forever because the paint is just not losing the rusty patina in spots. It's grey and I think I can see fingerprints and smudges leaking right through the paint from some Brit who handled it before it was coated. Crap. Even after 24 hours on some of the paint looks no better after I put it in. The rust came off of the rims like magic though, and it was pretty darn bad in parts.

    I haven't even started the frame yet. I don't have room for a kiddie pool so I'm using one of those big rubbermaid containers. I'll have to move the frame about 3 times to get each corner. Some parts in the middle might not even fit in.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  9. #9
    Senior Member triplebutted's Avatar
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    Park has a set of brake specific 8/9/10 open and closed wrenches just for that purpose.
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  10. #10
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    Oxalic acid isn't a paint remover and probably won't salvage damaged or faded paint. Try using a real paint remover and strip the frame completely, then use oxalic to get rid of the remaining rust.

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  12. #12
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Thank you for telling me something I already know. It's appreciated, really. I was simply stating that the Raleigh paint at this vintage of Nottingham-built bikes is poor and quite porous and rust-stained quite readily and obviously over the 30+ years it sat around. Because the other-wise sound (but currently ugly and somewhat chipped) is such a light gray ***-metal color it has stained and taken on a patina even where it hasn't chipped. With enough patience the Oxalic is doing an OK job of bleaching out most of the iron oxide reddish stains but some of them obviously are not going to be fully alleviated as you so adroitly reminded me.

    This is a $40 bike purchase and the paint is 99% covering short of a ton of tiny ding chips. It's not bubbled nor is the frame extremely rust damaged.

    Resale value of a girls 1978 Raleigh sports is about $150 max if I can get it shiny and new looking. Pray tell me where a complete down to the metal strip and repaint is going to fit in that profit margin?

    She's getting a long dip in oxalic to get the worst of the staining faded down to an acceptable level of "cool looking" to your typical hipster chick, and then a slathering of clear-coat to keep the steely-gray metal bits (and almost paint-matching) from rusting again and sealing it up so the crappy paint won't oxidize any more and evaporate away or stain again as moisture vacations at the beach. So far I've got the fenders and fork completely de-rusted and clear-coated and they look quite decent I might add. There is just enough patina in the paint from the remaining rust-staining to give it character but not look nasty.

    The frame is next. It'll take a longer time since my bath is a bit on the small side and I'll have to rotate it a few times to give each pointy end a chance to bathe in the oxalic.

    It is getting a complete deep-cleaning and rebuild of all the components, new bearings and grease, half of a headset on the lower since the old lower race was severely pitted (happened to have a decent crown race in my stash that fit the head tube and a new lower race that matches), new inner cables, new brake pads, and new tyres. After that I've got about $50 in parts into this job which leaves me with about $60 or so of profit for my time/effort. That works out to about $2/hour for my time not including messing around selling it.

    Good thing I love working on bikes and the whole entreprise is based on a way to have fun building bikes without breaking my bank. I'm not doing it for the money, but to help get an old girl back on the road for someone who will appreciate it. But I'm not going to LOSE money on the deal. I'm thinking about finding a set of cork grips cheap if I can find some. Hipster chicks LOVE those cork grips on the tweedy bikes and they might just pay for themselves as well as making the bike move faster once I list it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Oxalic acid isn't a paint remover and probably won't salvage damaged or faded paint. Try using a real paint remover and strip the frame completely, then use oxalic to get rid of the remaining rust.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
    Thank you for telling me something I already know. It's appreciated, really....With enough patience the Oxalic is doing an OK job of bleaching out most of the iron oxide reddish stains but some of them obviously are not going to be fully alleviated as you so adroitly reminded me.
    Thank you for the details of what you are trying to accomplish and the condescending tone is also appreciated. Your intent wasn't obvious from your postings and, since you didn't know about brake wrenches, your level of expertise was also unknown. Glad to be of service.

  14. #14
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Condescending maybe. Maybe you should go into your own bathroom and look in a mirror after reading once more your initial post to me.

    Did you really think I as so stupid as to not know that Oxalic would not strip paint? I've been working on bikes for many years and turn a wrench for a living. I've never run into a bicycle brake that had the locking nut so thin as to not work with the current wrenches I have. I asked a simple question as to where I could find such a wrench and then immediatly stated that I fabricated my own wrench rather than mess around procuring one as I was moving on with the project.

    If your reading comprehension is so throttled that you could not easily infer this from reading my post I really can't help you further here. These are just words on a page. Words mean things. I'm not going to put out an audio version where I read it aloud for you. Just be aware that When you say certain things in certain ways then perhaps some people might respond in a negative manner, and either get over it or think before you post such nonsense to people.

    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    Thank you for the details of what you are trying to accomplish and the condescending tone is also appreciated. Your intent wasn't obvious from your postings and, since you didn't know about brake wrenches, your level of expertise was also unknown. Glad to be of service.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  15. #15
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    Sorry bud, but you're the one who's out of line. HillRider is a knowledgable and respected member of this community and like he said, there was no way to know you wrench for a living from your initail posts. There was nothing rude about his advice, he certainly didn't imply you were "stupid". Also, remember that this is a public forum that many people are reading; just because the info isn't new to you doesn't mean there aren't others who might appreciate the knowledge.

  16. #16
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Oxalic acid can and is used by many people to clean up rusty/ugly painted bike parts without worrying about damaging the pant or even decals. It's a really good way to clean up an ugly bike that has been left out to get rusty but the surface rust hasn't spread out to bubble and destroy the paint with more serious body cancer below the surface. For surface rust and rust stains on paint it's like magic.

    I would think a senior member of this community would "know" this.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  17. #17
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    Now I get it. Like Hillrider, I misread your initial post as a request for assistance, which he and I both tried to provide. A simple thank you would have sufficed, or maybe nothing which would have been fine.

    But, it turns out you didn't want help, but were posting to bolster your own ego. For example, if you were going to make a wrench anyway, we didn't have to waste our time telling you where to source one.

    You might do well to remember that the help you get from strangers on a forum is 100% FREE. Those who respond have no agenda but to assist others within the community. Since it's free you can assign it any value you want, But if you're begging for a dollar and someone gives you a quarter you don't complain about being shorted seventy-five cents.

    Even though I was spared your diatribe, I've added you to my list of folks not to bother helping. Feel free to respond, or not , I simply don't care.

    Good luck with your bike.
    FB
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  18. #18
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Let me guess, you work in a bike shop. I recognize the attitude....
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
    Let me guess, you work in a bike shop. I recognize the attitude....
    Strangely enough, no I don't. But I'm not surprised you recognize the attitude, I'm sure YOU run into it more than most.
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  20. #20
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Wow, Amesja. If you think about it I'm sure you can see how what you were trying to accomplish with the OA bath could be misconstrued in post #5.

    No need to get all bent out of shape because of Hillrider's reminder. Just because you've achieved "Senior Member" status doesn't necessarily mean you've performed an OA bath before and your massive amount of posts still may not have been enough for Hillrider to ascertain your level of proficiency when it comes to rust removal and other finish rehab procedures.
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