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Old 03-29-11, 04:49 PM   #1
Jonpwn
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Sugino 75 cranks and BB installation question:

Hi guys, I have a set of sugino 75 cranks with the 75 BB coming int he mail soon and I want to be able to have the tools ready and know my stuff before they get here.

I've read the maintain your sexy track BB thread over and over to get the visualization.
I currently have an SE draft lite which the company says has a Euro BB. I'm 99% sure that it's English threaded. If someone knows of this bike and knows that it isn't, please tell me so i'll have a good reason to buy a sealed bb. It is also a square taper, so will the park tool ccp-22 remove it regardless if it is ISO or JIS? again i'm 99% sure that it's ISO because it's a low end bike. I want to remove the current cranks but not destructively such that i still be able to use them just in case something happens.

So from my research, the bike specific tools that I need to remove my current bb and install my 75's are:

park tool ccp-22
park tool green pin spanner: 2.9 mm
Lockring tool

Correct?

I'm not concerend about the various sized sockets and rachets and all that since i have a full tool set at home.

I see that the lockring tool is combined with the cup wrench (flattened circle tool) in the maintain your bb thread, but in the thread the OP does not use the cup wrench side. I already have a lockring tool so if i do not need the cup wrench then i obviously won't buy it. So do i need the cup wrench?

also, there is only one kind of 75 bb right?

this is the seller's image of the bb set:



lastly, any pointers when installing? I know to grease all threads, and i will have to buy a plastic accordion spindle cover.

sorry for all the questions, thanks for reading.
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Old 03-29-11, 06:20 PM   #2
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jis/iso has nothing to do with being a low end bike. it's the square taper in the crank arms. generally japanese cranks will be jis. italian cranks will be iso. there are high end cranks in both standards, there are low end cranks in both.

all that matters is you match a jis bb to jis cranks and iso to iso.

tools required:

1) hex key to pull the crank arm bolts (it'll be 6 or 8mm)
2) square taper crank arm puller
3) cup spanner (i can't remember i think it's 32mm)
4) hook spanner (for the lockring)
5) pin spanner (to hold the cup while you tighten the lockring)

really the plastic sleeve isn't a requirement. the cup wrench is a requirement to put the drive side cup on and tighten to spec. i see people try and do this with a shifter instead, which generally just scars the cup.

the only other things to be careful of the first time you install, most people tend to over tighten the non-drive side cup, which side loads the bearings. you're better off having a tiny bit of play than side loading. also the bearings are directional - i've seen people put them in backwards, so make sure you've got them in the right way.

personally i've never worked on a 'fixie' so don't know how people tend to lube the bearings. i work on a lot of track bikes which don't get ridden in the wet, and get broken down and rebuilt frequently so we tend to use very light oil in the bearings. i suspect if your riding outside, and servicing infrequently, you'll want to use a heavier grease in there.
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Old 03-29-11, 08:35 PM   #3
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Park tool has the ccp-22, which it is labeled just as a square taper crank arm puller. It should work with both ISO and JIS correct? afterall, both are square tapers..

I'll invest in a cup/pin spanner tool since it looks like I will have to be maintaining and servicing this regularly.

I will be riding it outside as a commuter bike, occasionally in some wet weather. the 75 bb is an open BB and my BB shell has a small hole at the bottom that i read was from draining purposes.. I'm not sure how much the plastic sleeve will do, but it should be better than nothing. Thanks for the help on the grease and tools!

edit: can someone enlighten me on how the cup wrench is used for this installation? also, does the cup and pin spanner tool have to be separate for the scenario where i have to use both at once, or can i have one tool with both?

thanks

Last edited by Jonpwn; 03-29-11 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 03-29-11, 08:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sideshow_bob View Post
jis/iso has nothing to do with being a low end bike. it's the square taper in the crank arms. generally japanese cranks will be jis. italian cranks will be iso. there are high end cranks in both standards, there are low end cranks in both.

all that matters is you match a jis bb to jis cranks and iso to iso.

tools required:

1) hex key to pull the crank arm bolts (it'll be 6 or 8mm)
2) square taper crank arm puller
3) cup spanner (i can't remember i think it's 32mm)
4) hook spanner (for the lockring)
5) pin spanner (to hold the cup while you tighten the lockring)

really the plastic sleeve isn't a requirement. the cup wrench is a requirement to put the drive side cup on and tighten to spec. i see people try and do this with a shifter instead, which generally just scars the cup.

the only other things to be careful of the first time you install, most people tend to over tighten the non-drive side cup, which side loads the bearings. you're better off having a tiny bit of play than side loading. - also the bearings are directional i've seen people put them in backwards, so make sure you've got them in the right way.

personally i've never worked on a 'fixie' so don't know how people tend to lube the bearings. i work on a lot of track bikes which don't get ridden in the wet, and get broken down and rebuilt frequently so we tend to use very light oil in the bearings. i suspect if your riding outside, and servicing infrequently, you'll want to use a heavier grease in there.
I disagree with the part I highlighted. Angular contact bearings are meant to bear a side load.Any play at all means the load is not distributed over all the bearings, and the bottom bearings end up bearing the whole load.
BB adjustment calls for the Goldilocks approach. Not too tight, not too loose, but just right. Just right is the point at which the play disappears.
To the OP,you will find, that to accomplish this will take a few tries unless you get lucky the first time. You need to set the adjustable cup a little over tight, and when you crank down the lock ring, it will loosen up. If you get play after tightening the lock ring, loosen it off, tighten the adjustable cup a wee bit and tighten down the lock ring again.
Repeat as needed.
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Old 03-30-11, 05:37 AM   #5
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ok thanks, i'll keep that in mind during installation.
any info about the cup wrench and pin spanner?
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Old 03-30-11, 06:53 AM   #6
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I know this is not the correct approach, but damn the torpedoes! lol...

I made a pin spanner by putting a pair of needle nose pliers to the grinder till they fit in the holes. Just don't heat them up too much or you destroy the hardness. Then I made a lock ring wrench with a pair of channel locks. Ground the teeth off and then ground the jaws till they matched the lock ring notches. For the drive side I was forced to use a large adjustable wrench.

I know, I'm a mess. I was someplace w/o my tools and wanted the bike. Necessity is the mother of invention.
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Old 03-30-11, 08:47 AM   #7
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Bottom bracket fixed cup wrenches are most commonly 32 mm across the flats with an oblong hole that acts as a box wrench so the needed torque doesn't spread it. A large adjustable wrench will work - sort of - but it isn't the right tool.

You position it over the fixed cup and crank it down VERY tight. The torque spec is in the 300 - 400 inch-pound range. The hard part is not having the wrench slip while you are doing this.

To prevent slippage I made a clamp for the fixed cup wrench out of a 5" long 5/8" bolt, a nut and two BIG washers. Use it as follows:

1. Thread the fixed cup all the way in hand tight then thread the adjustable cup (non-drive side cup) in a few turns.

2. Add one washer to the bolt and thread the bolt through the adjustable cup and out the fixed cup.

3. Place the fixed cup wrench over the fixed cup's flats, then place the second washer on the bolt and add the nut finger tight. That sandwiches and clamps the wrench between the frame and the washer.

4. TIGHTEN the fixed cup. Remember English bottom brackets have left-hand threads for the fixed cup.

5. Remove the nut, bolt and washers and complete the bb assembly.
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Old 03-30-11, 09:28 PM   #8
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I don't think i can spare a set of needlenose pliers for a one time job. I think i'd be better off buying the right tool.

the fixed cup wrench clamp sorta reminds me of this thing that my dad rigged up for installing lower control arm bushings on a car.. tie rod with big washers..
I'll give it a shot when i install it. thanks for the tip
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