Fallingwater

I've been reading up on aftermarket brake systems because I'm caressing the idea of replacing my bike's calipers, which I so far rank "better than nothing, but not by that much".

My main gripe with them is that they only have adjustment on the fixed (inner) pad, which makes it troublesome to adjust them. There's a little knob for adjusting the position of the whole active part of the caliper, but getting it so it clamps the disc properly without also touching it when not braked is proving a seriously frustrating challenge, not aided by the damn things' tendency to drift from the set alignment. Adjusting the outer pad requires acting on the cable, which then changes how the lever works.

I can get a pair of Avid BB7, with matching discs and pads, for about €70 on eBay. This wouldn't make me poor, but I'd still rather like to spend less than that, if at all possible. Note that the BB5s aren't an option, because they have the same problem as my existing ones (though I'd still expect them to perform better).

Any suggestions? Thanks

commo_soulja

70 euro for BB7s is pricey! They're going at around $50 in the US online or even ebay.

AEO

there are BB7 with G3 rotors from hongkong that are going for about $70 for the pair.
$70 for the pair is just about the best deal out there, so no, there's nothing cheaper.

that $50 from the US is "each" so it adds up to $100 for the pair.

motobecane69

honestly, i think you should spend the extra money and go with the BB7's. They are pretty much regarded as the best mechanical disc brake out there. I just put one on my commuter bike and am very pleased with it.

blamp28

It looks unanimous so far. The BB7s are the best bang for the buck in disc brakes. They are simple to install and adjust and offer decent modulation. If you put even a nominal value on your time and aggravation so far. They are a bargain even at $100 per pair but you should be able to find a better price than that.

Boye

BB7 can be had for 50 euros each in Europe: https://www.google.de/search?q=avid+b...ed=0CB4QpwUoAw

BCRider

BB7's are still a one pad only movement. The other "fixed" pad needs to sit extremely close to the rotor and needs frequent adjustment to the positioning screw as the pad wears to avoid having to flex the rotor to achieve full contact.

I have yet to see a cable operated caliper that uses a two moving pad or spring loaded floating caliper design where both pads move with each braking application. If you want that sort of design feature you need to go with dual piston hydraulic brake systems.

The BB7 caliper comes with a set of cup and ball washers similar to those used on rim brake pads on mountain bike V brakes. These washers allow a full range of setup motion and allow you to get the fixed inner pad set to perfectly parallel to the rotor. This is a critical step in setting up a mechanical disc system given that it relies on the rotor flexing instead of semi floating pistons as found in hydraulic systems. The more the rotor needs to flex the more poor the braking will feel.

Having played with a couple of mechanical disc setups, but not any Avid BB7 systems, I finally came to the conclusion that the best answer was to go hydraulic. A decision I have not regretted in any way. I don't doubt that the Avid systems are nice. But for only a little more money I can get a cheap but nice hydraulic system. Such systems are easier to set up and have more tolerance since the pistons can float a couple of degrees within the seals. But on that note I find there are a number of single sided calipers even in the Hydraulic setups. The newer Hayes Sole system being one such and one or two from Magura. Such one sided calipers are to be avoided if you're not willing to spend the time on them setting them up correctly and then trimming the fixed pad position on a regular basis. Frankly I'm not willing to play that way so I pay a little more and get the dual piston setups.

blamp28

Agreed but the OP was simply looking for two pad adjustment, not actuation. This looks like a situation where cost is a big concern so the BB7 would solve his issue at a very reasonable spend.

DannoXYZ 

Implied in the OP's quest is dual-actuation. Because it would be useless to have adjustment on the moving pad, it's always going to be as close to the disc as possible when you release the brake. The only reason there's an adjustment is on the fixed-pad so you can adjust it as it wears out. Dual-pistons will result in easier installation, less squeal and more even wear. But that may be beyond the "budget disc caliper" category.

Bike brakes are evolving the exact same way motorcycle & car brakes have. Eventually we'll have more optimum and efficient designs such as fixed dual-piston brakes with floating discs at the high-end and floating single-piston with fixed discs at the low-end. Someone will certainly come out a self-balancing single-piston brake in the future. Not that difficult to have the caliper float on a sliding pin so it centres itself over the disc and clamps both sides evenly with single-sided actuation. With hydraulics, you don't ever need to adjust it, even when installing it the 1st time.

fietsbob

Not cheaper but as I read IRD has both pads move to the rim, thru an internal mech in the caliper.

Gusset seems to offer a similar one , may be from same contracted factory,
IRD gets polished, Gusset is flat black.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=3214
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=17722

Fallingwater

The €70 I mentioned in the first post is for two discs, two calipers and four pads. €70 is exactly $100 as I write, so the price seems to be honest. I'll look for cheaper offers, but I'll be surprised if I find any - things over here are always more expensive than on the other side of the pond...

Actually, blamp28 is right - I'm looking for dual adjustment, not dual actuation. Not that I don't LIKE dual actuation, mind you, but as stated cost is a concern.

The moving pad needs adjustment too, at least from what I've found working on my cheapo setup. But if you can adjust it on the caliper, you needn't reposition the cable. Otherwise you need to loosen the cable bolt on the caliper, rotate the actuator slightly so the pad gets closer to the disc, and then tighten the bolt again. While this can result in a working brake, it reduces brake modulation, as a portion of the actuator's full possible course is used up in bringing the pad closer to the disc.
I hope I'm explaining it well enough...

I figure this isn't a huge issue, but since I'm already of half a mind to replace my existing cheapo calipers, I might as well pay a few euro more and get a system with dual adjustments.

I've no doubt hydraulic calipers are more effective, but to me one of the big advantages of a bike is that I don't have to worry about liquids other than those I need to drink. I already have a car and a motorcycle that need several types of different liquids regularly checked and replenished, and I don't particularly like the idea of my bicycle needing this too.

I was under the impression hydraulic systems are a lot more expensive than mechanical ones. Please define "a little more money" - if a dual-piston system isn't much more expensive than the BB7 setup, I might just crack the wallet open a bit further and resign myself to liquids...

How much "not cheaper"?

LarDasse74

From Chain Reaction Cycles (UK):
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=59438 - BB7 for €54.66
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=54691 - Avid Juicy 3 €56.99
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=28021 - Shimano SLX Hydros for €68.35

Eidit: Oh.. and BCRider may know something I don't but Avid BB7s do have inboard and outboard pad adjusts... even if only one side moves.

BCRider

I've played with a couple of various sets of mechanical calipers but not any of the BB7's. So I'll bow to your experience and consider myself corrected. I'm afraid that I just "ass-u-me'd that they were only fixed pad adjustable since the BB7s from a casual inspection appeared to be that way.

And your price quotes bear out that the hydro options are actually CHEAPER than the BB7's.

Fallingwater consider that the BB7's are caliper only. You still need a good lever (Avid Speedial preferably) and housing plus cable. Meanwhile those "wet" brakes are lever, hose and caliper. So all in all they are actually cheaper given the prices at Chain Reaction. Although there WOULD be a bit more expense given those prices in comparison with a double pack of BB7's for 70 pounds.

As for worrying about the liquids I was worried about that as well. But after owning four sets over the years and given that I rode two sets a LOT for somewhere around 8 years for one and 10 years for another and have ridden my infrequent off road mountain rids with the others over the years I can safely say that having liquid filled hoses has been a LOT LESS trouble than my other bikes that use cables and housings.

Fallingwater

Hmm. I can find a full Juicy 3 set on eBay Italia for €115 shipped, which is tempting indeed. The Shimanos are a fair bit more expensive at about €160 shipped, so I'd rule them out unless they're better by leaps and bounds... hell they're more than twice as much as I was expecting to spend on this whole thing with the BB7s. Just how much better than the Juicy3 are they (assuming they are)?

A related question: how resistant are the hoses to damage? I'm of the "a used item is a happy item" school of thought, so I've never treated anything I've owned with kid gloves. I've long outgrown the phase when me and my friends used to do horrible, horrible things to (and with) our MTBs, but you can still see kinks and dents in the two I own now. A cut cable I can just toss and replace with a €3 supermarket's special, but a leaky hose is going to be a bigger headache, and not just because of the oil getting all over the place...

cobba

From what I understand:
G3 rotors aren't made to be used with BB7's, they are made for Elixirs and XO's
The G3 rotors have a smaller braking track than the G2 rotors.
BB7 pads are larger than the braking track of the G3 rotor.
The BB7 will work with a G3 rotor but the brake will work better with a G2 rotor.
G3 + BB7 = pad contact with the rotor spokes as well as the braking track.

M_S

^
Correct. It's not as bad as using the shimano rotors with way narrower braking tracks but still not ideal.

Also, I would take BB7s over Juicy Threes even if the former were twice as expensive. Juicy Threes suck. Basically, cheap disc brakes of all kinds are pretty terrible in my experience. This may be improving, but BB7s and to some extent BB5s are really the only good options in mechanical discs, period. The shimano units have acceptable power but are a relative pain to adjust. If you;re going for low end hydraulics though, the Deores and non-series shimanos are pretty good.

AEO

well, in that case, they also have BB7 with G2 rotors, which ends up around $2 less.
but either way, that's still a good deal, because I had to pay WAAY more for the road BB7.

Fallingwater

So what you're saying is that no cheap hydraulic system can achieve the performance of a decent mechanical system like the BB7 (with G2 rotors)? If that's the case, then it's settled - no way I'm spending €200 or more on hydraulic brakes.

blamp28

I've used them for three seasons in dirt, snow, rain and mud. They're simple and cost effective. I run them with the Speed Dial Levers.