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  1. #1
    Senior Member AlphaRed's Avatar
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    cannondale cable guides - please help

    I have a C-Dale with cable guides that need to be re-attached. I was thinking aluminum rivets but they would interfere with the cable going through. Any other ideas?

    Thanks
    ARed

  2. #2
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    If they're bottom bracket guides, some halfway decent glue or double sticky tape would do the trick. The FD cable loops 1/2 way around and would tend to keep it home, and the RD cable doesn't exert enough force to move it anyway.

    Back in the dark ages there were no BB cable guides. FD cables were routed above the BB using clamped or brazed fulcrums and short lengths of housing, similar to the RD loop. The RD wire passed through a small noodle attached to the same clamp.

    A few of hardy souls got brave and decided to eliminate the FD housing loop by running the wire through a bit of plastic tubing placed below the BB shell. nothing held it on, it just had no reason to go anywhere. That worked so well that those of us with a clamped on chainstay fulcrum flipped it over and ran the rear wire under the shell the same way.

    Some 20 years later the screwed on cable guide finally made it's entrance.
    Last edited by FBinNY; 04-07-11 at 06:50 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member AlphaRed's Avatar
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  4. #4
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    I can't tell from the photos. Where do these go, and what do they do? Are they guides or fulcrums (stops)?
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  5. #5
    just pokin' along desertdork's Avatar
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    They're guides for the rear brake cable housing (full run).

    OP see: http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-571091.html

  6. #6
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    If they have built on pins for the drilled holes a decent adhesive should do the job. Otherwise I'd phone Cannondale and find out how they attach them.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member canopus's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly these plastic ones are pinned in, if the pin is broken, your SOL. There was someone, I think in the Classic and Vintage forum, that had his local LBS get some in for 9.95 for 3. You might check there. I think Dr. Cannondale said Mikes Bike in CA might be able to special order them for you but they are getting hard to find due to the changes with the company. I lucked out. Mine are older metal ones that they riveted on.

    Found it, Part # is A113

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...er-available..

    Any adhesive is only as strong as the paint, and that usually isn't to strong on these older paint jobs.
    Last edited by canopus; 04-07-11 at 11:44 PM. Reason: ps
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  8. #8
    aka: Dr. Cannondale rccardr's Avatar
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    Sadly, Cannondale is out of stock and has no date yet for availability. I have not been able to locate any at a bike shop, either- called all over the country but no luck. There are a lot of us out here that need them- I have five frames that are sitting unused because of this.
    Cheap solution is to use Problem Solver/Jagwire cable guides that stick on a use a zip tie to fasten the cable to the guide.

    I'm working with a local fab shop to see if they can make a replacement metal guide that rivets into the existing set of holes. Stay tuned to this forum and I'll post if they can come up with a reasonably priced part.
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  9. #9
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    Could you install a rivnut threaded M4 or M5 or similar and thread in a hookeye or ring bolt? You could run full length housing through the loops.

  10. #10
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    Hillrider, No doubt that can be done and be effective, but I'm not sure about the appearance, tho' surely better than a couple of tie wraps.

    Brad

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    The easy fix is a set of stick on cable guides. Or you could buy some aluminum cable guides from a frame builder supply company and screw or pop rivet them to the tube.

  12. #12
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    I may be missing something... but is there anything stopping you from running cable housing the full way? You could then use some metal clips like http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...o_s3x_2100.jpg I think this looks good and should be easier than having custom cable stops fabricated.

  13. #13
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    math is fun, Cannondales have an oversize top tube diameter, but if some could be found to fit the clips would be a viable alternative and certainly be better than nothing.

    Brad

    PS Going by your alias I certainly could have used your help when dredging up my very rusty geometry to get three points to meet in space when installing the rear rack on my touring bike. Ended up working perfectly.

  14. #14
    aka: Dr. Cannondale rccardr's Avatar
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    I have yet to find an available cable guide that matches the two holes already drilled in the top tube for each guide. I'd even take one that covered both holes if I had to drill a 3rd hole, although that would be a second choice to one that was the correct size.

    Hard to believe that Cannondale is so cavalier about supplying these old parts, especially considering that their plastic molded piece is a patented proprietary design.

    I spent some time with the machine shop today to see what they can do about coming up with a correctly sized replacement that can be riveted in place. No promises, but if they are able to do a batch of them for a reasonable price I'll foot the bill for 100 and sell them for cost.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Somebody else had the exact same problem with their C'dale. If you can't find or don't want to order and wait for the plastic snap in clips you COULD make your own. Check out post #9 where I posted a sketch for now to make your own out of some sheet aluminium and then use some small pop rivets to attach them to the existing holes.

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...e-cable-guides
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    Wrote to Cannondale customer service regarding the plastic brake cable guides, and got the following response:

    "Thank you for writing us. It is true that we no longer have the top tube cable guides available. Our vendor for this product has gone out of business and we do not know where like guides can be sourced. The only thing that we can advise is to use cable-headed zip ties which your local Cannondale Retailer can assist in getting for you.



    http://www.sram.com/sites/default/fi...20SPC_RevA.pdf Page 113, Item 65 0326 011 001, Bike Clip Clamp Ř 28 – 35mm, black, for 2 Housings, qty 1."

    Really quite unbelievable that Cannondale refuses to keep this product in stock

    Anyway, I'm preparing to restore an older Cannondale that needs paint/powder coating, and I guess I'll look into having proper cable guides brazed on the frame.

  17. #17
    Senior Member demoncyclist's Avatar
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    You're really going to ***** about not being able to get a part for a bike that they haven't used in ages??? BTW, they aren't refusing to keep the parts in stock, they can't get them anymore- the vendor went out of business, and no other vendor in their right mind is going to tool up an injection molding line for the small number of these that they would be making. If it were my bike (and I do have an old 3.0 frame that has these guides), I would use some stainless steel tubing and epoxy to make new guides that fit in the place of the old ones. BTW, lanciat- you can't braze cable stops to a thin walled aluminum frame- that is why they used the plastic guides in the first place.
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  18. #18
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    Availibility of unique parts used on some bikes only for a few years is becoming more of a problem as bike makers innovate and experiment more. You can't blame Cannondale for a vendor going out of business, and your problem is minor compared to folks who can't source a headset, seatpost, rear shock, or any of a number of parts whose makers, or dimensions didn't survive a long tome.

    If this were a fairly recent vintage bike, I'd be sympathetic, but as it's a restoration, you have to accept that sourcing, subbing or making replacement parts is part of the game.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanciat View Post
    Wrote to Cannondale customer service regarding the plastic brake cable guides, and got the following response:

    "Thank you for writing us. It is true that we no longer have the top tube cable guides available. Our vendor for this product has gone out of business and we do not know where like guides can be sourced. The only thing that we can advise is to use cable-headed zip ties which your local Cannondale Retailer can assist in getting for you.



    http://www.sram.com/sites/default/fi...20SPC_RevA.pdf Page 113, Item 65 0326 011 001, Bike Clip Clamp Ř 28 – 35mm, black, for 2 Housings, qty 1."

    Really quite unbelievable that Cannondale refuses to keep this product in stock

    Anyway, I'm preparing to restore an older Cannondale that needs paint/powder coating, and I guess I'll look into having proper cable guides brazed on the frame.
    Not cannondale's fault. Go to the C&V forum and search Cannondale. There's a thread about the cable housing guides and an interesting, to me anyway, possible substitute guide from a frame builder supply house. It would take drilling the new guide, the TT and riviting or screwing on (epoxy is also a possibility). The guides are metal and could be powder coated along with the rest of the frame.

    Brad

    PS May not want to epoxy before powder coating, I'm not sure.
    Last edited by bradtx; 10-20-11 at 02:17 PM. Reason: ps

  20. #20
    Godbotherer dwellman's Avatar
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    I want to know if those pins are the same size that held the chain hangar in place. . . I actually got 7 of the pins out but lost one. . . and used those on the guides.

    Actually, one pin holds the guide in pretty well, but I wasn't going to risk it not using two
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by demoncyclist View Post
    You're really going to ***** about not being able to get a part for a bike that they haven't used in ages???
    Mais oui -- I thought that *****ing was one of our inalienable rights.

    And I'd be more sympathetic of Cannondale's situation but for the fact that it holds the patent on the cable guide (U.S. Patent No. 4733835, which is an interesting read), and used it on all of their bikes for most of the first 10-12 years of production.

    On the other hand, as others have noted, time marches on. And the original Cannondale went under in 2003 -- present day Cannondale is part of a conglomerate that distributes Chinese-made bicycles under a variety of historic names.

    Demon, thanks for the advice on the impossibility of brazing. I suppose that an alternative cable guide could be riveted on, rather than glued?

  22. #22
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    There are adhesive backed, stick on guides to zip tie down hydraulic brake lines ,
    It seems to me they would work as well to tie down the cable housing.

    Might be some small pop rivet, fixed hose guides, essentially like a small drawer handle.

    So, like our model airplane guy.. but a different material..

    one could even bend a little piece of stainless steel spoke
    and make something to form a guide,
    or a zip-tie anchor, bending the wire [there are round nosed pliers for bending]
    and pop-rivet that down, using existing pair of holes..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 10-20-11 at 04:02 PM.

  23. #23
    aka: Dr. Cannondale rccardr's Avatar
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    Best, cleanest (but possibly not so elegant) alternative I've found is Jagwire MTB hydraulic cable guides. Adhesive on the bottom, sticks well if the tube is properly cleaned and uses a small black zip tie to hold the cable in place. Works just fine, even come 3 to a package, all you need for one bike. Not permanent so if you ever come across a set of three (they are out there) you can replace them without damaging that new paint job or powder coat.

    I know folks who have shoe-gooed (or Marine Gooped, different brand name, same stuff) cable guides with missing pinways to repainted frames and they are much harder to get off.
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  24. #24
    Godbotherer dwellman's Avatar
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    Marine Goop. . .

    Hmm. . thinking about non permanent adhesion solution. . . I wonder how appropriate silicon or ceramic thermal paste would work. . . maybe not. If it dries out it can be very sticky, but still can be easily removed with orange oil or the like (mineral spirits, acetone) and cleaned with isopropyl alcohol.

    Supposed to be metal to metal, though, not plastic to paint, so maybe not.

    Then there's thermal adhesives which take a lot of heat, but crack up at below freezing. . . basically a thermal conductive epoxy, so not really a good idea either.

    EDIT: Hot glue? Enough to hold the guides in place and to remove: Again citrus oil, alcohol, acetone. . .
    "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize"
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    I had 2 plastic ones to re-attach. I used Gorilla glue on one, and super glue on the other. The Gorilla glue is still holding 6 months later, but the super glue popped off shortly afterwards.
    Gorilla glue "foams up" and expands, so don't use a lot.
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