Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-09-11, 12:27 PM   #1
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Too many spacers? - Cinelli Experience build

I just got the carbon spacer set this morning, so for the first time, I was able to install the front wheel, bars and stem.

To get the saddle to bar drop I am comfy with, here is how I would have to set up the bike. 4.25cm of spacers, stem flipped up. Is this too much? The frame is an XL, with an alloy steerer and I need 81cm of saddle height (measured saddle top to BB center). So, I have long legs and an average top. Any larger frame, and the top tube would be too long.

Thoughts?



Last edited by AndyK; 04-09-11 at 07:59 PM.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 12:39 PM   #2
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
IMO you have too many spacers. I prefer to keep the stack below 2.5cm, but I'm more conservative in this regard than many others.

Either way, you'll probably be OK because the stem has relatively short extension, limiting the amount of leverage you'll have on the fork. You're in a gray area and maybe the deciding factor is how you ride, If you're a herd climber or sprinter, who works against the bar a lot, you might want to shorten the stack. OTOH, if your a spinner, riding good roads and don't work the bars hard, you're probably fine.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 12:50 PM   #3
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I bought this frame to try and get less saddle to bar drop than my '03 De Rosa Merak. Maybe the Merak (which is maxed out due to the carbon steerer) is better suited to me than this Cinelli??

AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 12:55 PM   #4
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
These days with sloping top tubes being totally acceptable, your best option would have been a sloping top tube bike who's higher head height would reduce the need for too many spacers.

But since you already own the Cinelli, keep it as is for now. If you ever need a new stem, look for one with a high angle like 73/17° which will give you 34° rise when inverted. And if you need a new bike, shop for one with a higher head height.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 01:10 PM   #5
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I actually removed a spacer, and measured that I only have a 2" saddle to bar drop. I have 4" on the De Rosa. So, like you said, I'll try the Cinelli with the less than perfect 3.5cm stack height. With my freakish longer leggs, it might be the best I can hope for in a $600 frame.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 01:19 PM   #6
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,409
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Why spend serious dough and still ride a bike that doesn't fit right?

You've already spent the $600, but I don't think you should have to live with anything less than what is the most comfortable or efficient bar height. Not that 7mm is a killer difference, but if you find you prefer a higher bar, consider an inverted high angle stem.

You can use Habanero Cycles stem angle/rise chart to see if a stem change makes sense for you.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 01:55 PM   #7
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My other vintage Cinelli is a 63.5cm with a 59cm top tube. With a 90mm stem, it fits great, probably because there is not much saddle to bar drop.

Most modern frames have much longer top tubes than the vintage frames. So to get a stock frame with a high head tube, with a shortish top tube is pretty hard. Seems I do best with a 57cm top tube, and 110mm stem. Not an easy frame to find today.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 03:24 PM   #8
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Posts: 22,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
I think you should ride like it is and see how it feels. the make adjustments.

if your riding a 63cm steel bike these look like they may be small
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 03:49 PM   #9
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll definitely ride it before deciding. The 63cm bikes were given to me by my uncle. My true size is usually 60-61cm. So far, on my trainer, this Cinelli seems comfy! Stay tuned. And thanks.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 04:19 PM   #10
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
FBinNY's recommended 2.5 cm limit for spacers stack height is what makers of 1" carbon steerer forks typically recommend.

With 1-1/8" carbon steerers you have a bit more latitude. The shortest recommended maximum spacer stack I've seen with a 1-1/8" steerer is 4 cm and Easton allows 5 cm even on their lightest all-carbon forks.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 04:22 PM   #11
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,819
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Casual riding may put less stress on things, and so keep the thing
from being over stressed .

Maybe you can sleeve inside the carbon steerer with a metal tube
for backup .. reinforcing..?
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 05:45 PM   #12
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The good news is the fork is carbon, with alloy steerer, which is why I bought the Cinelli (knowing I could add more spacers).

Last edited by AndyK; 04-09-11 at 06:22 PM.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 06:45 PM   #13
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyK View Post
The good news is the fork is carbon, with alloy steerer, which is why I bought the Cinelli (knowing I could add more spacers).
It would have been nice to know that from the beginning as most of the replies assumed it was a carbon steerer. Now, pretty much the sky's the limit. I don't think I'd use 10 cm of spacers even with an alloy or steel steerer but the 2.5 or 5 cm limits aren't an issue.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 06:58 PM   #14
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
It would have been nice to know that from the beginning as most of the replies assumed it was a carbon steerer...
...except there are pictures clearly showing a metallic steerer through a hole in the stem...

5cm of spacers is not a problem on a alloy steerer unless the manufacturer explicitly states a limit for spacers.

Another option would be a stem with a little more rise. Did you ever try swapping the stem to a higher rise one on the DeRosa? Or flipping that one to positive rise?
LarDasse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 07:57 PM   #15
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The De Rosa is just too small, and putting a wacky MTB type stem wouldn't look right. The Cinelli works with 3.5cm of spacers, I think!
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-11, 08:17 PM   #16
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 28,776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarDasse74 View Post
...except there are pictures clearly showing a metallic steerer through a hole in the stem...
True but most of us missed it until you pointed it out.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-11, 07:09 AM   #17
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry I assumed everyone would know the makeup of a Cinelli Experience fork and steerer! My original question wasn't one of safety, as in, is it safe to use this many spacers. I just wanted to know if the need for so many spacers meant the frame wasn't right for me.

Here it is with the reduced spacers. I think it will work this way comfort-wise, without looking too spaced-out. These sloping top tubes and "virtual" reach really confuse the hell out of me when setting the bike up! I'll cut the steerer when I'm sure the setup works.


Last edited by AndyK; 04-10-11 at 07:14 AM.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-11, 08:52 AM   #18
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In my opinion it is ok. What you can do to make it look better is to change the upper cup for a coned shaped one instead of the flat one u have not, that will allow you use less spacers because u get like 1 cm from the cup.

Any you are pretty tall, if the frames fit you i don't see anything wrong using those spacers.

Take care.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-11, 10:16 AM   #19
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,819
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
My impression [owning just some of the spacers], is a Cane Creek Interlok head set and spacers
make a quite nice interlocking combination.
that would by their functioning like a whole act like a sleeve from the top bearing
to the underside of the stem.

Make the fit comfortable, leave the spacers above the stem, so you can change your mind.
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-11, 07:01 AM   #20
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Make the fit comfortable, leave the spacers above the stem, so you can change your mind.
Good advice. I plan on getting a taller top cap to replace my hiddenset's non-existant top cap. That will mean I can reduce the spacers, still having my comfy setup including plenty of steerer left. As I was about to set up my brake and shifter cables and cable housings, I stopped before my first housing cut, and stuck in one more spacer, just in case. I can always trim the cables and housings, but can't make them longer if I change my spacing!

Last edited by AndyK; 04-11-11 at 07:05 AM.
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-11, 09:48 AM   #21
mrrabbit 
Senior Member
 
mrrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Bikes: 2001 Tommasini Sintesi w/ Campagnolo Daytona 10 Speed
Posts: 3,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Me thinks that when decent money comes along in the future, you are a candidate for a custom built steel frame from a local frame builder.

=8-)
__________________
4000+ wheels built since 1984...

Disclaimer:

1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
mrrabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-11, 08:26 AM   #22
AndyK 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern N.J.
Bikes: '03 De Rosa Planet, '77 Cinelli Supercorsa, '79 Paris Sport (Moulton)
Posts: 1,961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
Me thinks that when decent money comes along in the future, you are a candidate for a custom built steel frame from a local frame builder.

=8-)
Maybe if a bigger house with a bigger garage comes along! At this point I own 4 bikes, my wife has 1, and my kids have 2. Although, I could keep that custom made steel frame in my living room! IF the Cinelli doesn't work out...
AndyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:31 AM.