Aquakitty

Backstory: Last year I was testing out a bike for touring and loaded it up a few times with like 30 lbs of weights. I was riding down a hill and the entire wheel locked up and I skidded to a stop. Once home it looked like the axle was bent so I replaced the axle. I rode a few more times and I noticed play in the axle again... and I could not set the locknut tension without too much play and grinding, so I take it apart again and this whole inner freewheel body part comes off. The grease in there used to be pure white so I think it has been grinding away.. and there are a few shards of metal on the end.

Just to make sure, this piece is not supposed to come out is it?



The whole thing:

HillRider

There is supposed to be a hollow bolt with a 10 mm interior hex hole that bolts the freehub body to the rest of the hub shell. It's not in your pictures so I assume it was not installed when ever the hub was last serviced.

Aquakitty

Ah ok thanks, I knew something was not right... I never removed that so it must have been like that since I bought this bike used!

motobecane69

cant beleive BF police haven't swaremed in and yelled at you for calling that a freeWHEEL body, it's a freeHUB body. and as the other poster said, yes, they can come off but generally they are held together with a hex bolt Some ultralight hubs that use cartridge bearings are simply press fit together with dustcaps. the real question is has it been damaged beyond repair as a result of these incidents.

mrrabbit 

Actually looking the pictures, it would appear to me that part of the allen bolt is still attached to the [sic] "freewheel body" and was sheared off.

Look at the ring of metal where the mating splines end and where a non-drive allen bolt would attach...

=8-)

Oh...and moto...you never answered my questions in the other thread...

=8-)

motobecane69

I started too but got sidetracked and the fact that I don't even remember exactly what it was about tells me it wasn't worth it.

Aquakitty

Oops, I realise it is a freehub, I am totally burned out today!

I found the issue, the bolt was in there but not attached to the hub, and most of the hub shell threads are stripped completely.

mrrabbit 

...uh huh...

FastJake

Uh oh. Looks like you will most likely need a new hub. Unless you can manage to screw the body back on.

dabac

The schematic in your pic is for a dead-standard Shimano freehub, while your pic is of something else. What brand/type of hub is it?
If that is all the protrusion you can get from the hollow bolt there's something rather strange going on.

Kimmo

Weird hub is toasted.

motobecane69

dont worry, i went back and addressed it, lol!

davidad

The hub is a Joytech or a Formula. The hollow bolt that holds it is inside the hub.

Jeff Wills

It's not a Joytech or Formula any more. It's toast!

Aquakitty

Lol, guys, it was a boring old Deore M525, it looks weird because the inner piece came off with the freehub body and the bolt was only a few millimetres out. But yea, it is toasted, not enough thread and the bolt can't reach!

dabac

Well, the M525 isn't supposed to come apart like that, see here: and it's really weird that the splined nub on the freehub body seems to be lubed. You might try a repair if you wish. Stick body back on. Unbolt body from nub. Clean both splined faces thoroughly, smear on a good epoxy, or even better - a loctite product for fixing bushings in place. Press nub into hub, allow to cure. Reassemble body. Ride on.

Aquakitty

The threads inside the hub body are stripped except for 2 at the end. Once the freehub body is back on the threads are too far away for the bolt to catch... I am just gonna order a new one. Gah this has been the biggest pain in the ass! I should have taken a better look at it when it first blew up. Either the weight on it just caused the bolt to come out or whoever I bought it from serviced it and never screwed it back together properly. The way it is stripped though seems like it just worked itself out. I assume the grease squeezed through the cracks since the freehub body wasn't connected to the hub.

Thanks for the help!

dabac

Not to be rude - but did you ever look at the Shimano schematic?
The splined bit should go into the body - not into the hub.
If it really is a M525 hub, then all I can think of is that the splined nub is made as a separate part from the hub spindle, and then press-fitted later on - not meant ever to be removed.
With the normal shimano hub design you have all the threads you'll ever need for the hollow bolt to engage inside the splined nub and not in the hub spindle. The protrusion seems about right for that.
Maybe something like an axle failure or a shamefully poorly adjusted bearing might put enough of a bending load on the body to cause the hub to come apart like that?

davidad

Shimano Prints their name and model number on the hub. I don't think that one is a shimano.

Aquakitty

It is a Shimano deore M525. The entire point of this thread was to ask if the spline is supposed to come off, and it either broke off or it can come off. The spec in my post does not indicate if it is supposed to come off. I am not a total noob, I can read the text on the body of the hub that says Shimano M525, if you want I can take pics .

The spline piece stuck in the freehub is not welded in there it is a separate piece. The reason I cannot put it back together is that the interior of the hub body is stripped (this is where that bolt is supposed to go). I realise there is supposed to be threads in it, but they are stripped completely off except for the very back. If you look at the pic closely you can see the shavings. I am guessing this spline thing is supposed to be attached to the hub and broke off. There are threads inside the hub as well (like an insert).

I realise it is hard to explain what's going on from text and pics without seeing it but I'll bet you a new hub that's an M525

Aquakitty

Oh just one more thing, Shimano calls the freehub body a freewheel body! That's probably why I called it that.

https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830728349.pdf

dabac

OK, fine. A part of the hub that isn't supposed to come off has come off - in a novel and unexpected way. No questions there.

And if it does say Shimano on the item then I'm not going to argue with that.

But the protrusion you've circled is way too short to get a solid engagement, if that's all the protrusion you can get from the body fixing bolt. That can't be what was meant to hold that thing together.
Although the bicycle industry does come up with some rather sloppy engineering from time to time, something like two turns steel into aluminium would be rich even for them.

I'm still thinking that the important threads are on the inside of the splined bit, which was meant to be a press fit into the central body of the hub. The threads you're seeing in the hub are probably just runout from running the tap past the maximum insertion depth. My hubs have plenty of that.
If splined nub is a good and tight fit into splined recess, I'd still be ready to try a repair - to save the hassle of a wheel rebuild. A good clean, a good metal-on-metal glue and you're all set.

Aquakitty

There's threads in that splined bit and in the hub body, the threads in the hub are the ones that stripped. The bolt, in the pic, is loose. I think what happened is someone (the former owner of the wheel) had it apart and did not tighten the bolt, so nothing was holding it on but the force of the axle/quick release. This caused play in the hub which I just thought was an axle or bearing issue.. but in reality the bolt was in there wearing away at the threads. Or, maybe just the weight of me and the gear caused the bolt to ream out the aluminum threads in the hub and work it's way out.

I was dumb because when the hub failed on the hill I just assumed it was a bent axle but that wasn't the issue at all it was the freehub coming loose from the hub body.

Either way in that pic the bolt can go way farther in than it shows, when I took the pic I didn't know what I was looking at, didn't even know there was a bolt in there as I never removed a freehub before. Oh well now I know what to check!