pbd

So, my rear rim eyelets were cracking on my bike (aluminum frame Specialized Sirrus), and Specialized was great and gave me a whole new wheelset under warranty. Not only did they give me a whole new wheelset, but they actually upgraded the wheelset to a set with CXP-22 rims, the same wheelset that comes on bikes like the lowest-level Roubaix, pretty sweet. Bike shop installed the wheels, no problems, very happy customer.

Later in the week, I'm doing a little maintenance, and I discover that while my frame is a 135mm spacing on the rear wheel, the wheelset installed is a 130mm. The bike shop didn't mention it when they swapped the wheels, they had just tightened down the skewers. I searched on here and other forums, and I couldn't find any consensus on the subject.

So I went back by the shop today and asked to make sure this is alright, and the shop basically said "yeah, only 5mm, should be fine, just tighten the skewer down and you're fine". I was hoping for a more convincing answer I guess, and it seemed like one of the mechanics wasn't as sure as the other. There is definitely some frame compression going in to get the wheel on, but it doesn't seem like a ton, I have no trouble doing it by hand. And the wheel is centered well and tracks well on the bike. BTW, I'm also a 240lb clyde, if it matters.


So, is the shop right that it's no problem? They raised a decent point that Specialized made the bike and they're the ones that sent a 130mm wheel, so Specialized must think it's alright too. But it seems to me it could've easily been an oversight by someone in the warranty department.

One guy at the shop mentioned that it would "only cost ~$xx" for them to convert the wheel to a 135mm if I "wanted to", but I feel like if it should be changed then I shouldn't be charged for it. I really like the wheels, a definite upgrade and the warranty replacement was handled great in every other respect. But if this is going to cause another problem later, I'd rather handle it now, and I worry that if there is another problem later, it would complicate the issue to have to prove what caused any subsequent failures.


So what would you do? Forget about it and ride? Ask more forcefully? Call Specialized and ask them? (it was too late today to call them after I stopped by the shop, I was hoping the shop's answer would be more convincing so that I wouldn't have to try and go above them).

Tom Stormcrowe

2.5mm compression on each side isn't that big a deal. If it mounts straight and tracks correctly, I wouldn't sweat it. If you want, get a couple of 2mm axle spacers, and that will essentially eliminate the rear stay compression down to 0.5mm, each side.

AEO

actually, you only want to install a 5mm spacer on the non-drive side, because you get to reduce dish and keep the cassette aligned properly that way.

It's pretty simple if the hub has adjustable cones, which usually most cheap hubs have anyways.

It should really only cost about $20 or so, which should be the same price as having a wheel trued up.

nwbikeman

I have a Crossroads with road bike wheelset, Ultegra/Mavic open pro and have had no issues in 4 years.

motobecane69

you could have them do the fix but you should have to pay for it simply because it's not the shop that provided the warranty coverage, it's the manf. The real solution should have been for the manf to have sent the proper one in the first place but considering you seem to be happy with the upgraded wheelset, I'd gladly pay the shop the $20 or so to set the hub up properly as it's not really their fault that you had the issue and the fine print does always say that the product is covered for being defective but not labor associated with whatever needs to be done. some shops would do it free just to keep you happy though. I had a similar issue on my rapid where the rim was cracking and I had to pay the lbs to swap the casette, tube and tire.

davidad

The problem is, that because the dropouts won't be parallel the axle can take a slight bend and wear the bearings prematurely.

cycle_maven

Yeah, best not to bend aluminum frames, even 5 mm to clamp a road wheelset in a touring/hybrid frame. +1 on the 2mm spacers each side- then you won't have to mess around with re-dishing the wheel.

mrrabbit 

As correctly noted by AEO:

5mm spacer on the NON-DRIVE side IF the OP is really concerned. Re-dishing (centering between locknuts) will be required.

The 2mm x 2mm that has been noted is a band-aid used by those who don't understand the alignment issues they are causing.

=8-)

Unreqistered

Question: Did you actually measure the rear frame spacing? It's not uncommon for the frames to actually be spaced at 132.5 so hubs of both variants can be employed.

Those worried about the cassette alignment might be over thinking the issue a bit.

DCB0

How old is the bike? Most shops have a 1 year or two year service warranty. If you are outside of this period then everything the shop does not charge you for is a gift for which you should be thankful.

If, however, you are still inside the service warranty period I believe they should respace andand redish the wheel for you.

If you are unhappy about the slightly mismatched replacement then your beef is with specialized, and you could ask the shop to contact them to ask if they have a more appropriate choice of wheels for warranty replacement.

My preferred solutions would be (in order of preference):
1. Respace and re-dish the wheel.
2. ride the bike as-is (2.5mm/side shouldn't be a problem)
3. Get new wheel.

FastJake

Some incorrect advice on this thread... As posted by some above, you should:

1. Add 5mm of washers to the NON-DRIVE side of the wheel (or whatever it takes to match your frame spacing.)
2. Redish the wheel or have the shop do it for you. Shouldn't cost more than $10-$15.

There's really no reason to ride around on a wheel with less spacing than the frame. The wheel is weaker, it's a pain to install/remove, and you're bending the frame when you don't need to be. It's a very simple fix, get it done right.

pbd

Thanks for the replies, all. There is a lack of consensus all over the web on this, so at least this thread is consistent with that.

There do seem to be many of the opinion that it's fine unless it worries me in particular, but I feel like I don't know enough to understand whether or not it should worry me. But I think FastJake is right, it's pointless to stress over a $20 fix either way.

Still a learning experience regardless, thanks for all the replies.



After reading more, I think I understand the differences between these approaches as far as how the system works once set up with either spacer arrangement.

However, regarding the actual setting up and with the mention of adjustable cones, this wheelset has cartridge bearings. I'm still trying to figure this out, but do the cartridge bearings complicate the process? I'm taking a wrenching class at a local co-op and have disassembled/adjusted standard cup-and-cone stuff there, but I'm still unsure of if the cartridge bearings make a difference or not. I think they don't make a difference if one knows what one is doing, is that true?



You had to pay the LBS to swap the cassette and tire on a warranty replacement rim? That sucks. My LBS didn't charge a dime. I certainly don't think the LBS should lose money on a warranty replacement gone wrong either. If Specialized did make a mistake in sending the wrong wheel, it's neither the shop's fault nor my fault. If it is a problem, I would expect Specialized to help make it right. But that's the thing, I don't know how much of a problem it really is, hence this thread. The LBS's offer was to basically change it if I "want" to, so I'm trying to find out if I "need" to get it fixed.

I guess from reading on here (this thread and others), I'm pretty lucky to have a great shop in general. New bikes get free tune-ups for a year, and they haven't charged me for turning a wrench or truing a wheel (twice so far, on my old rims, the ones that ended up getting replaced under warranty) yet.

This is the first time I've had any experience with them where I didn't completely trust their judgement on a mechanical matter (and their opinion seemed a little divided), and they've always treated me very well in business matters.



Measured to the best of my abilities, I actually get 136mm on the frame, and 131mm on the wheel. +/- 1mm is probably within my margin of error, so I'm assuming they are both pretty close to the 130/135 standards.





Bike is 4 months old, bought in December.

I'm very happy with how Specialized and the shop handled things from a business perspective, I just want to make sure I'm not setting myself up for a future failure or anything like that.

I wanted to be told convincingly that it's no problem and everything will be fine. The shop wasn't convincing, but this thread is helping that issue. Your advice, especially that concise preference list, is most helpful and greatly appreciated. (Except I would add "Get new bike" above get new wheel, I'm saving towards a road bike anyway and every little reason helps when you've got n+1 syndrome )



This makes sense as well. I am stressing too much over $20. Life's too short to worry about $20 or to worry about something else breaking because I didn't spend the $20.

I'm still trying to figure out if the cartridge bearings make it easier, harder, or no difference though. Still reading.

Retro Grouch 

If it was my bike I'd fix it but I'm a little anal about things like that. I'm thinking it's about a 30 minute job.

1. Measure the bike and the hub. You've already done that.
2. How's the axle length? You need a little axle sticking past both lock nuts. Ideally I'd replace the axle with one 5mm longer.
3. Reassemble the hub with a 5mm spacer on the non-drive side.
4. Redish the wheel to center the rim between the locknuts.

BCRider

I doesn't matter if it's cartridge bearings or not. If the axle gets slightly bent by the angled dropouts caused by pulling in it will load the bearings more on one side than the other. If it does not overload them then there's no issue. If it creates high contact pressure in the bearings then it will cause premature wear. Without knowing the amount of play in YOUR SPECIFIC wheel and how it will respond to the small angle it's impossible to say if it would be an issue or not.

But for my money I'd get the longer axle and 5mm spacer put on and have the wheel re-dished. The odds are good that nothing bad is happening but I'd find it a pain to mount the wheel with that much spring on a regular basis. And there's the unknown issue of the wheel bearings possibly being loaded by the angle caused by the axle being force to take on a slight arc shape.

cycle_maven

Er, what alignment issues? Perhaps I'm too stupid to understand... the wheel is just exactly centered and exactly as strong as it was before the spacers. The tracking of the bike will be the same. The derailleur will need to be adjusted, but I'd think that is a little easier than re-dishing and truing a wheel, or replacing an axle. If the guy with the spoke wrench is of average ability, then the wheel is likely to be *weaker* after the dishing exercise. I'd just put a couple of washers on, tweak the derailleur and be done with it. 25 cents at the hardware store, and about 3 minutes with a Philips head screwdriver.

mrrabbit 

Doing it WRONG...

1. Axle replacement.
2. Spacer addition.
3. Rear derailleur adjustment.
4. Chainline get moved inward 2mm.
5. Front derailleur adjustment mostly for trimming purposes.
6. Hopefully the 2mm chainline inward move won't introduce or add more noise and/or grind.

Why bother with all that when simply DOING IT RIGHT only requires...

1. Axle replacement
2. Spacer addition
3. Re-dishing the wheel

Literally..that's it.

"Keep It Simple Stupid" or the KISS rules really applies here.

=8-)

=8-)

cycle_maven

I dunno- I was thinking no axle replacement (axle should have at least 4 mm on each side in the dropouts, and this would decrease to 2 mm), and 2mm of chainline change is pretty minimal, probably not requiring front derailleur adjustment or contributing to any additional noise or grind. So my list would be:

1. Spacer addition.
2. Rear derailleur adjustment.

versus:

1. Axle replacement
2. Spacer addition
3. Re-dishing the wheel

But I will agree that the best way to do it is the second way, and the first is a little sloppy but effective. I think "doing it WRONG" is pretty strong wording for something that will take a couple of minutes and work just fine as opposed to something that takes expert help and a trip to the LBS... Depends on the parameters of right and wrong, eh?

FastJake

As far as axle replacement goes: the stock axle is probably 141mm, to let it hang over 5.5mm on each side of a 130mm wheel. Now, if you space it out to 135mm you still have 3mm of over hang on each side. Which is plenty. As Sheldon says, no overhang is actually necessary. But some overhang is definitely good when installing a wheel. That little bit of axle isn't what holds the wheel in place, the QR skewer does. So, I wouldn't bother replacing the axle. But if you want to do it "by the book" then you can certainly replace it.

Yes, but it could be stronger if it was spaced correctly out to 135mm then dished appropriately. More dish = weaker wheel. By taking some of the dish out, the wheel will be stronger than it was originally.

Redishing a wheel isn't hard. Unless the guy doing it is incompetent, it will be stronger afterward.

pbd

It has >4mm on NDS and and >5mm on DS. So it would seem the axle might be long enough then, which saves a few bucks.

I'm just going to let the shop take care of it. I talked to them again and it's not going to cost much at all, definitely not enough to worry about. I got the definite impression the only reason they're charging anything at all for labor is because they're really busy right now, so I can totally understand that.

Retro Grouch 

I disagree. Redishing a wheel isn't complicated. If you are starting with a good wheel and adjust the spokes on each flange by exactly the same amount, the wheel will stay true and the spoke tension on each flange will remain as even as it was previously. Going from 130mm to 135mm OLD the tension differential between the flanges will be less so the wheel will be a little stronger than it was.