Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-25-11, 08:14 AM   #1
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
TiGr: A Titanium Lock on Kickstarter

I'm very pleased to say that John Loughlin (another Bike Forums guy) and I have just fired up a Kickstarter on our TiGr titanium bike lock project.



It's about as tough as a Kryptonite (we're looking to get that confirmed by a third party with help from our Kickstarter backers) at a quarter the weight, it goes through both wheels and a parking meter post, and it's designed to look like it belongs on an object as elegant as a bike.

Please help us get the word out!
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 08:51 AM   #2
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
I can see it as a stationary lock left at a routine parking spot but how do you carry something that long and awkward on your bike?
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 10:13 AM   #3
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 30,869
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Besides the issue of transport Hillrider mentions, is the issue of saw resistance.

I have yet to see an alloy of Titanium that isn't vulnerable to the plain old hack saw, though you might need Nicholson or other better blades than the low ens stuff sold at home depot.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 10:24 AM   #4
Re-Cycle
<3s bikes
 
Re-Cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
Bikes: lots
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looking forward to that third party review. I know my Kryptonite stays at home more often then it should because of how heavy it is. At $100 a pop it would only fulfill a niche market but certainly one which is not over saturated.
Re-Cycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 12:16 PM   #5
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
There are plenty more pictures over on the Kickstarter page, but in short:



In order to get a hacksaw through an object, you have to be able to hold it rigid. Not only has John chosen a particularly infuriating-to-cut alloy (part of the reason they cost so much), but there's also no real way to hold it in place. The lock body rotates freely on the end of the bow.

You could go at it with a bold cutter, of course, but the high end one holds off a 48" bolt cutter, while the sleeker one still holds its own against a 36".

And I would love, love, to see a thief go at one of these with a grinder, throwing an arc of white-hot titanium sparks in a burning ring around themselves. Sure, you can get through it, but it's probably the least subtle thing you can do.

I'm the designer on the project, not the engineer. That's John, the other guy. I'm the guy behind the camera, the guy making sure there's a simple place to keep the lock, making sure it fits into one's actual bike experience in a way Kryptos don't. But John's really, really excited about the properties of the lock.

I've been using one for about six months, as has another Bike Forums user. We're both really impressed with it mechanically.

Quote:
At $100 a pop it would only fulfill a niche market but certainly one which is not over saturated.
Well, the $100 is a limited time thing, just for the Kickstarter. I don't think we'll be able to actually retail them for that. If you want one at that price, this is your shot!

Keep in mind also: this is John and me. We're two guys who love biking, engineering, and design. If you guys back this project (and thanks to those of you who are! There are a couple more backers since I first posted this thread!), it's because you want to see this project become real, not just because you want the project. We're just really excited to be able to give back to the people who help us make it real.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 12:28 PM   #6
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,182
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1134 Post(s)
may have to start by paying for space at the next Bike Dealer's Trade Show,
and having a booth there,do talk to dealers, to get them in their shops.
Good Luck , in this marketing campaign..

[looks like it needs a sleeve to keep from scratching the paint]

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-25-11 at 12:32 PM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 12:42 PM   #7
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
[looks like it needs a sleeve to keep from scratching the paint]
Yeah, it has a PVC or heat shrink jacket. The prototype in those pictures doesn't, but the final will. It's actually more serious than you think: when you put it on a carbon frame, we're making sure it can't abrade or chip the frame itself.

Quote:
may have to start by paying for space at the next Bike Dealer's Trade Show, and having a booth there,do talk to dealers,
Yes and no. In the 21st century, we have to be very careful about losing our margin to retailers. At least for the time being, we're doing all direct, though some dealers have shown interest. In those cases, we can deal with them directly and don't have to deal with a distributor. I just don't think people will be willing to pay the $400 for a lock that the distributor route would require.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 04:09 PM   #8
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If this is meant to be a replacement or a superior substitute to the Kypto -locks, it ain't. How the F are you going to carry that around? It's way bigger and bulkier than a u-lock. A mini-krypto fits in back pockets. Some clothes even have a reinforced rear pocket for carrying it in that manner.

What do you do when you have a modern road bike (re: Anything non cannondale) that has a non level top tube? What about a XS size bikes?

Does that go around parking meters?

Over $100 MSRP for the lock, lol.
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 04:29 PM   #9
Mr IGH
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 3,841
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
...How the F are you going to carry that around?....
There's a picture above that shows how to carry it, try reading the entire thread before attacking....
Mr IGH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-11, 06:14 PM   #10
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,117
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
The price is going to be a barrier but not an insurmountable one if the lock works as advertised. Operator does make a good point in that how will the lock be carried on the variety of unconventional, non-round tube and warped main triangle bikes so prevalent these days.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-11, 10:31 AM   #11
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I actually went down to a bike shop to try it on a bunch of frames. It's thin enough that the curve of a top tube doesn't actually make much difference. It's only 20mm wide, and, while there are some super-curvy high-end frames that I haven't tried (Van Dessel comes to mind), most don't seem to be a problem.

Super small frames can be a problem, though. I put one on a 46, (I think it was) and the seat cluster was so close to the back brake, there wasn't really room for the end of the bow. We're thinking about manufacturing smaller ones in the future, but for now, we have to stay focused to get the funding to do the first production run.

We've gotten a really funny and attractive suggestion to make a ninja scabbard for it so you can put it over your back for those who don't want to or can't attach it to their frame. I'm inclined to design a messenger bag attachment, too, and a couple of people have suggested tiny bows that are just super light and cover one wheel and the seat tube. So we're thinking about other options. But only focus will get us to the point where we can actually do any of it.

Quote:
The price is going to be a barrier but not an insurmountable one if the lock works as advertised.
Yeah, the price is something we have to contend with. But if we can't sell it at this price point, we can't afford to make it. That's part of what's great about Kickstarter: you can find out if people will buy something before you put in your $37,500.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-11, 10:40 AM   #12
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Oh, hey, about going around things: the reason the bow is made of titanium is so it bends around stuff. Here's a prototype around a parking meter:



I haven't been able to find something to try it myself, but John tells me he's locked it through both wheels and a 5" tree.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-11, 12:22 PM   #13
BCRider
Senior Member
 
BCRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Bikes: Norco (2), Miyata, Canondale, Soma, Redline
Posts: 5,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Joshua, in the last picture the support from the parking meter post would stabilize the bow well enough that someone with a hacksaw would be able to get a pretty darn good purchase on the bow for a cut. Is the Ti metal tough enough to at least make this a long and grueling job?

To put it in perspective this question is coming from a guy that thinks it's not a big deal to go buy steel stock in 20 foot lengths and cut through 3/4 inch round bar with no vise and just a curb step in the parking lot of the metal supplier to let me put the three pieces into the back of my truck. All it takes is a foot on the bar and to keep it in close to the curb. The parking meter or a tree would accomplish the same thing.

I tend to go by the idea that NO lock is totaly theft proof. Instead the whole idea is to make it less desireable for any number of reasons related to the lock and where it's locked so as to encourage the low life scum to move on to easier pickings. So the key is for the TiGr to be more trouble than it's worth.

Frankly I've always thought that a hungry timber wolf with bad attitude would be a great security feature for a locked bike. But I ran into troubles with not being able to approach my own bike so it was back to the drawing board for me. On the whole I like your TiGr idea better than the wolf... Having said that the cost of your lock is way beyond what I'd be willing to pay. But then I have not had a bicycle stolen from me. If I had then I strongly suspect that at $150 or so that I'd think this was a great deal provided it does the job of not being beaten by easy methods.
BCRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-11, 03:59 PM   #14
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Is the Ti metal tough enough to at least make this a long and grueling job?
Yeah, it's tough and really annoying to cut with a hacksaw, actually.

Quote:
I tend to go by the idea that NO lock is totaly theft proof.
Yeah, and it's sure not a claim we want to be the first to make! Part of the reason we're looking for funding is to have the lock certified by a third party so we can say objectively how much of a theft deterrent it is. On the whole, the TiGr is extremely annoying to cut and outright defeats most other methods. John is actually working on some video footage right now of his own attacks on the lock to demonstrate. I'll be adding it to the video when he completes the shoots.

Quote:
But then I have not had a bicycle stolen from me. If I had then I strongly suspect that at $150 or so that I'd think this was a great deal provided it does the job of not being beaten by easy methods.
The lock is designed for people with much more expensive bikes than mine — riders who are counting grams but want to make sure their bike is still there when they get out of work or when they stop off for a beer at the end of their group ride.

The price is because it's a carefully designed object made of necessarily expensive materials.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-11, 08:39 AM   #15
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
This project is going great! Thank you so much! We're at 83% funded with a month yet to go!

I just put up some new videos! One is a video of a TiGr in use. The other is John attacking a D-lock and a piece of TiGr stock with a hacksaw, angle grinder, and bolt cutters.

Check it: http://tigrlock.com/!

John's doing some more attack testing, too, so we should be able to do another attack video soon.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-11, 07:42 PM   #16
Drew Eckhardt
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Bikes:
Posts: 5,186
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua A.C. New View Post
Yeah, it has a PVC or heat shrink jacket.
Can we get it ($150 pledge) with a transparent jacket?

Something matching my titanium frame, titanium seat post, and otherwise St. Tullio aproved shiny silver anodized bits would be nice.
Drew Eckhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-11, 10:06 PM   #17
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah, the laser-etched ones have a clear jacket. I want to do a bunch of colors, too. We're still working on that, though.

Honestly, that's the one I want to replace the prototype you see in the pics above. Thing would be mad hot.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-11, 10:32 PM   #18
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Posts: 3,805
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Cordless die grinder with a carbide cut-off wheel does in any lock out there. Locks only slow the bad guys down.......
Michael Angelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-11, 02:52 PM   #19
Joshua A.C. New
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Joshua A.C. New's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northampton, MA
Bikes: Iron Monkey: a junkyard steel 26" slick-tired city bike. Grey Fox: A Trek 7x00 frame, painted, with everything built, from spokes up. Jet Jaguar: A 92 Cannondale R900 frame, powder coated matte black with red and aluminum highlights.
Posts: 956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
It's true! Check out the comically long and boring attack video on tigrlock.com. It takes twice as long to go through the 40mm bow as it does through the D-lock, and it completely defeats a bolt cutter.
Joshua A.C. New is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-11, 07:42 PM   #20
LarDasse74
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Grid Reference, SK
Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.
Posts: 3,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
If this is meant to be a replacement or a superior substitute to the Kypto -locks, it ain't. How the F are you going to carry that around?
You can carry it the same way you carry your head - up your arse.
LarDasse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-11, 08:16 PM   #21
xizangstan
Senior Member
 
xizangstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colorado-California-Florida-(hopefully soon): Panama
Bikes: Vintage GT Xizang (titanium mountain bike)
Posts: 1,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like it! I wonder if it would be good enough for my titanium vintage GT Xizang mountain bike? I mean, my bike may be 16 years old, but she's my pride and joy. I'm incredibly paranoid about losing her to some scumbag thief.
xizangstan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-11, 01:44 AM   #22
M.W.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If it's designed to bow outwards to accomodate larger objects, what is to stop me from lifting your bike up and flexing the lock around the head of the parking meter, especially if I were to remove your front wheel from the dropouts to give me more slack?
M.W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-11, 07:31 AM   #23
sgrobben
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.W. View Post
If it's designed to bow outwards to accomodate larger objects, what is to stop me from lifting your bike up and flexing the lock around the head of the parking meter, especially if I were to remove your front wheel from the dropouts to give me more slack?
^This
sgrobben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-11, 07:52 AM   #24
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,182
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1134 Post(s)
Quote:
In the 21st century, we have to be very careful about losing our margin to retailers. At least for the time being, we're doing all direct,
Infomercials on Nascar, or what?
Moderator, : Probably should move this to the selling stuff section. now.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-11, 09:17 AM   #25
xizangstan
Senior Member
 
xizangstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colorado-California-Florida-(hopefully soon): Panama
Bikes: Vintage GT Xizang (titanium mountain bike)
Posts: 1,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Moderator - I think this thread is okay. Sure, they're looking for free exposure for their product. But I don't know of many of us who manufacture all of our own bike stuff. We all need to be aware of new stuff from time to time.
xizangstan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.