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    Senior Member Capecodder's Avatar
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    Brake Pad (Long Tail) Direction?

    OK.... I'm going to install a set of Kool Stop (Eagle 2) pads on my Trek 7000 with Canti brakes.

    The New pads are have the long tail and as far as I know they should be mounted with the long end to the rear of the bike (correct)?

    The original (front) pads on the bike are mounted with the long end (forward) and the rear has the long end to the (rear) is this correct? I thought both front and rear should have the long end to the rear..........
    Last edited by Capecodder; 05-22-11 at 08:36 AM.
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    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    there isn't an arrow on them? I would agree the longer portion would be toward the back of the bike.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

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    Senior Member Capecodder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    there isn't an arrow on them? I would agree the longer portion would be toward the back of the bike.

    I'm going down to pick the pads up as soon as the shop opens, and I will see if they are marked with a arrow. I just find it odd that the original front pads are mounted with the longer end forward..... maybe that's how it was done on the older mountain bike, I can't remember.
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    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecodder View Post
    I'm going down to pick the pads up as soon as the shop opens, and I will see if they are marked with a arrow. I just find it odd that the original front pads are mounted with the longer end forward..... maybe that's how it was done on the older mountain bike, I can't remember.
    Sometimes the long end faces forward so that it doesn't interfere with the fork blade.

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    Senior Member Capecodder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Sometimes the long end faces forward so that it doesn't interfere with the fork blade.

    OK.... If the front pads can be installed (long end) to the rear without interference, should I install them that way?
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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecodder View Post
    OK.... I'm going to install a set of Kool Stop (Eagle 2) pads on my Trek 7000 with Canti brakes.

    The New pads are have the long tail and as far as I know they should be mounted with the long end to the rear of the bike (correct)?

    The original (front) pads on the bike are mounted with the long end (forward) and the rear has the long end to the (rear) is this correct? I thought both front and rear should have the long end to the rear..........
    The manufacturer's intended orientation depends on the brake and brake pad. In the case of the pads you're installing, Kool Stop intends the long part to be at the rear.

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    The name you used to describe it tells you the correct mounting direction. Like with cats and dogs, brake shoe tails are in the back.

    It might also help if you knew the reason for the long tail.

    When the shoe contact a moving rim, the rim pushes the shoe forward. This causes a rotating force around the mounting bolt twisting the arms and causing the rear of the shoe to dig in. Moving the mounting bolt forward, and increasing the tail length of the shoe helps counteract this rotation.

    If the long end were pointing forward it would simply lift away from the rim providing no benefit.
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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    It does depend on the manufacturer. I'd hate to see anyone install these backwards:


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    I wouldn't call those long tailed. Given the mounting direction indicated by the arrows they'd be bob tailed or long nosed shoes. I'd also love to see Shimano's justification for the design, since extending the length of the shoe forward has zero benefit.
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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I wouldn't call those long tailed. Given the mounting direction indicated by the arrows they'd be bob tailed or long nosed shoes. I'd also love to see Shimano's justification for the design, since extending the length of the shoe forward has zero benefit.
    I think Retro Grouch nailed the explanation for Shimano's design: fork-blade clearance. Dia-Compe also had some designs like this, e.g. the 987. And then the clone-makers copied them, etc etc. Given that the brake shoe's post sits behind the actual brake arm (on a front brake), it's not actually as off-center as it looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    I think Retro Grouch nailed the explanation for Shimano's design: fork-blade clearance. Dia-Compe also had some designs like this, e.g. the 987. And then the clone-makers copied them, etc etc. Given that the brake shoe's post sits behind the actual brake arm (on a front brake), it's not actually as off-center as it looks.
    That depends where the twisting occurs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bezalel View Post
    That depends where the twisting occurs.
    The twisting will always occur such that the rear digs in and the toe pressure is reduced. As the others have pointed out this shoe was designed around a fork clearance consideration. While that makes sense as far as it goes, IMO extending the pad forward is of little if any benefit.

    There are multiple considerations in mounting brake shoes, some of which like with this Shimano shoe may be in conflict with others. There's sort of a pecking order with some considerations being more important than others.

    1- if the shoe has a slide in insert with an open end, the open end must be to the rear (no exceptions).
    2- if the shoe is curved, the curvature must match the rim (no exceptions)
    3- If the shoe is asymmetrical, the long tail should be to the rear to counter torque on the arms
    4- If there are fork clearance issues, whatever clears is OK as long as conditions 1 & 2 are met.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Capecodder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    It does depend on the manufacturer. I'd hate to see anyone install these backwards:


    These are just like the original pads on the front of my Trek, and that is why I was concerned. It just make no sense to me as to why these pads were designed in this manner... I thought I was missing something, but I guess not.

    I did install the new Kool Stop Eagle 2 pads front, and rear with the long end to the rear and they work great. Also, there was plenty of room to have mounted even the original pads this way so I'm still unclear as to why....
    Amy, I'll always remember you...... I miss you so much, for you filled my days with so much joy.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecodder View Post
    These are just like the original pads on the front of my Trek, and that is why I was concerned. It just make no sense to me as to why these pads were designed in this manner... I thought I was missing something, but I guess not.

    I did install the new Kool Stop Eagle 2 pads front, and rear with the long end to the rear and they work great. Also, there was plenty of room to have mounted even the original pads this way so I'm still unclear as to why....
    It varies with the bike... I had a Cannondale T1000 with a lovely fork that had very little pad clearance, for example. I won't claim the pictured brake shoes are the best thing ever invented, but there are plenty of them out there and whether they suit everyone's engineering sensibilities or not, they do work. If they have a glaring issue, it's how large a brake track you need to accomodate them as they wear and start tracking lower and lower on the brake track. IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    It does depend on the manufacturer. I'd hate to see anyone install these backwards:

    Wait! are those NON-threaded Cartridge Pads??
    I thought such a product did not exist/obsolete?

    What model is that and is it(or similar) in current manufacture?

    The pads on it do look odly shaped tho.... not like any repacement pad I've seen commonly...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenologer View Post
    Wait! are those NON-threaded Cartridge Pads??
    I thought such a product did not exist/obsolete?

    What model is that and is it(or similar) in current manufacture?
    Front pads for 1996 Deore LX BR-M565 w/ ceramic (coated) rim option.

    You can see the pad says M70/R and "ceramic rim only". Standard pads on LX would be the shorter M65/T's and the pad holders for those would say Deore LX. None the less, even the LX front pads extend forward. Also, STX-RC BR-MC33 would have the same cartridge concept as LX.

    Deore XT BR-M737 (circa 1994) and XTR BR-M900 would have the same pads as an option, but the pad holders would say XT or XTR in place of just the generic Shimano.
    Last edited by laura*; 05-22-11 at 11:43 PM. Reason: STX-RC

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