gbiker

About 4 months ago I got a Spec Secteur Elite Apex:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...01&scname=Road

I guess I've put around 1000 miles on it but have also gotten about a half dozen flats on it. I still have the standard tires on it:

and the (patched) original tubes + more (patched) standard Spec tubes. All the flats are from really small holes (from small rocks?) -- never seen any goatsheads in the tires. I ride on dirt roads when I can't avoid it, and try to avoid debris, etc., don't hit curbs hard, etc.

Any advice on reducing the number of flats? Tire liners? Thicker tubes? Better tires? Slime? Anything else? Or is this frequency of flats pretty normal? (I hope not!)

FBinNY 

You didn't say anything about your weight or the tire pressures you maintain, but I'd venture that you'll probably do better with a wider tire (if the frame and fork will clear it). Also be sure to maintain reasonable tire pressure. Too high and handling on poor roads will be miserable, too low and you'll get snake bike punctures from hard bumps.

It also helps to make a serious effort to identify the cause of every flat. If you're getting punctures through the tread, what's causing them? If on the sides of the tubes, it might be snake bites from underinflation, andif on the belly side of the tube, look for something in the rim, rim tape, or how you're mounting the tires.

There's little you can do about punctures from road debris or thorns but if you're getting too many, consider a sealant like cafe latex, or a tire liner.

I ride 25mm tubulars on my sport road bikes, and 1.6" wired-ons on my commuter, do nothing special and average less than one flat per 2,000 miles, and that includes the terrible, glass and litter strewn streets of Mt. Vernon NY. On the flip side 4 of riding together once got 7 flats between us in a span of a few miles.

So one flat per 2k should likewise be an attainable goal for you.

gbiker

Oops, forgot to mention that! I weigh about 220 and pump the tires to about 115 psi (within the range recommended on the tire) before riding.

I've never seen "snake bites" on the tubes. They've always been tiny holes that go flat over several miles. Most holes have been on the tire side, I think one was on the side.

One flat per 2K sounds soooo much better than my current rate.

LesterOfPuppets

I ride with Mr. Tuffies in my tires. Makes the tires feel less supple but also makes flats exceedingly rare.

FBinNY 

IMO at 220#s you should be riding wider tires than 25mm. You wouldn't set up a truck on sports car tires, would you? Wider tires won't magically solve all your problems, but it should help.

Then it's about doing the detective work to identify the exact cause of your punctures; road debris, thorns, or whatever and deciding how to tackle the issue; liner, sealant, or choosing puncture resistant tires, or tubes (thicker wall on tread side).

mcgyver74

I think road bike tires in general are "thinner" then others, I think....... If you are getting that many flats, you can look at a set of Armidillo's (https://www.ubcbike.com/store/product/133990/Specialized-All-Condition-Armadillo-Elite-Tire-%28700-X-23---Black%29/" They are quite puncture resistant, but from what I have been told are also quite harsh in the ride department... A friend mind recommended I use Panaracer T-Serve for messanger tires and so far they have been a good choice for me, I ride about 100 miles a week in NYC and have only gotten one flat this year from a piece of glass on 2nd ave...

gbiker

Thanks for the advice everybody! I just patched yet another tube, and it was a single pin prick hole (like all the others), facing the tire. I felt and looked all around the tire but found no culprit. I guess it's pointy little rocks. :/

Not sure if I can put slime in my current tubes -- that seems to work well with tiny holes. Next I guess I'll try liners. All the flats are really getting to be annoying -- had two two days in a row this week.

gbiker

What tire width would you recommend?

FBinNY 

Flattered that you'd want my recommendation, but I figure a 28mm (actual, not just what it says) would probably be right. If you could find nice 32mm tires and if they clear the fork that might be better yet.

I base my opinion on this data table among other things, and suggest you ride at pressures in the 95-100psi range in the rear, and slightly lower in the front.

The trend is to ride narrow tires at very high pressures, but there's good evidence showing that a wider tire at lower pressure actually deflects less and has lower rolling resistance. You'll also find that lowering pressure improves handling making the bile less skittish at high speed. Unfortunately wider tires weigh more and have higher wind drag so there's a trade-off involved.

Over the years I've found that the narrowest tire with 15% tire drop at 100psi or less offers the best balance of low drag and good handling.

FBinNY 

Are you in an area where thorns are a known problem? Mark your tire with a line or X at the valve, so next time you get a flat you can line up the tube and know exactly where to look in the tire for the cause. (keep right and left straight when you remove the tube, or next time put a mark on one side of the tube at the valve to indicate right or left)

Even when I knew where the puncture happened, I often couldn't find the cause unless I squeezed the tire and rolled it between my fingers. Then a small cut in the tread would open up, and I'd use a pocket knife to flick out a tiny shard of glass maybe only 1/16" long.

gbiker

Thanks! I'm heading to the LBS tomorrow...

Yep, lots of goat heads around here. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm running over them on the paved roads and they get completely broken off on the road bike's smooth tires. But I usually can feel the remaining thorn on the inside of the tire...

berner

gbiker, I have a Secteur triple that came with that same tire. I think the tire is mostly fine for general use unless there are special conditions where you ride. I still have that tire on the front and have ridden it 3500 miles with little sign of wear and will get another 1500 miles out of it. By the way, I'm 170# and all flats have been on the rear tire. The special conditions here are clam shell shards on the bike path. Sea gulls will fly 30 feet above the pavement, then drop the clams to split open the shells. Those shards are razor sharp. My latest tactic is to install a Specialized Roubaix tire on the back that has thicker rubber and I'm happy with it so far.

I picked up a tire tip from an online pro blog that I believe helps also. That pro would inspect his tires very often by letting most or the air out, then going over them by inch by inch while pinching them to open and make visible otherwise invisible cuts. I'm finding tiny pieces of glass that will eventually work in to the tube. I'm convinced I've avoided some flats by doing this. Other than this, tire liners or thicker tubes will no doubt help also.

FBinNY 

The old time standard remedy for thorns and goat heads is "thornproof" tubes. These have double the thickness on the tread side of standard tubes, but I'm not sure they're available in sizes below 28mm.

Otherwise Cafe Latex is a sealant that works very well, and is made for use with presta tubes. Your dealer may have it or you can contact Cantitoe Road for more info. Any sealant works with Shrader valves, by removing the core to add it.

I'm not a fan of Mr. Tuffy except as a last ditch solution, because it makes for a crappy ride. You might also try the standby fix for everything - duck tape. 2" is too wide so cut a long strip about 3/4" wide and carefully line the tire before installing. It won't stop everything, but might be enough for thorns.

TheReal Houdini

Tire liners CAUSE flats. A mechanic friend told me so and I did not believe him. Until…

I commute 2 miles on Dutch three-speed with a dynamo, drum brakes, bolt-on axels, and a fully enclosed chain. Needless to say, it’s faster to walk to work/home than fix a flat. So I set the wheels up to be ballistic resistant (no such thing as bulletproof): 26 X 1.75” Forte Gothams, tire liners, and slimed tubes. A flat-free nine months later the rear tire erupts green slime.

The tire liner moved just a little with every rotation. The tube rubber was pliable enough to move with the liner. The tire was not. It abraded through the casing fabric one strand at a time until –POW- the tube burst through the hole.

I’ve been running the same tires and tubes without liners for three flat-free months now, including an overnight camping trip on the C&O canal. So far so good.

gbiker

Wow, crazy about the gulls and clam shells! Around here, I heard that railroad engineers planted goat heads at railroad crossings to keep livestock off the tracks, and of course the plant ran wild.

I got quite a few ideas from this thread (thanks!). I think maybe I'll look into slime first. I have thorn resistant tubes on my mtb and they've held up great so far. On my Secteur the flats have always been with the rear tire.

gbiker

Two more days of biking -- two more flats!! I took the tire off, marked the tire and tube, found the hole, then searched the corresponding part of the tire and found the tiniest glass/metal shard embedded in the tire. Grrrr. It was sticking straight into the tire, and was shorter than the tread of the tire, so I couldn't feel it, and could barely see it. But when riding it obviously worked on poking holes in the tubes. I carefully dug it out with a knife. Man, I really hope that was the cause -- was beginning to think the bike was cursed!

Thanks for the help everybody! Marking the tire/tube was a great idea, and I also bought some tire liners, slime, and more spare tubes at the LBS, in case it becomes a regular problem. Hopin' flat-free days are ahead.

LesterOfPuppets

Or fancy belted tires, whatever your fancy.

I think slime + liners is overkill, but...

Back in the late 90s I worked near the glass recycling plant and had to ride through several blocks of glittering pavement. Mr. Tuffies worked well.

Scooby214

I wouldn't do the slime in road bike tubes. The tire pressure is so great that the slime has little chance of actually plugging the puncture. I've learned this after cleaning that green slime gunk out of my rim (twice). I do have Mr. Tuffy Liners in one bike. I run puncture resistant tires in the other bikes.

relyt

If I were you I would buy some Continental Gatorskin tires. They will ride better than normal tires with liners. They are expensive but they last forever.

mconlonx

One of the worst pinhole offenders is very short pieces of radial tire steel cables. Very hard to feel, nearly impossible to see, no tell-tale cut in the outer tread to indicate location. For me, it usually involves going through the inside of the tire, turning it inside out as I go, carefully eyeballing it, and paying attention to any imperfection I feel.

demoncyclist

Big fan of the Panaracer T-Serv. I have had one flat in the three seasons I have had them on- it was a radial tire shard- the tiniest of wires that was just to the side of the thickest part of the tread.

TheReal Houdini

The moral of this thread is never just repair a flat - always figure out the cause first. Been doing that so long it just happens unconsciously. I don't even unpack the new tube until I figure out how the old one got a hole in it.

gbiker

^ True that. My tires are holding air for days now and my bike's got its groove back.