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Old 11-12-04, 09:31 AM   #1
531Aussie
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Which Loctite for spoke nipples?

I have a new front CXP33 wheel (32 hole) that will not stay true, seemingly because
some of the spokes keep coming loose.

When I straighten it, the same, or different spokes will loosen during the next ride.

I've twice returned it to the guy who originally finished it for me, but no luck

The rim does not appear to have any cracks, and a few bike shop guys have
said that the tension is fine.

It has black, straight guage DTs, with 'standard' (brass) nipples.


THANKS
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Old 11-12-04, 10:02 AM   #2
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You would have to disassemble the wheel to get any Loctite in the threads to begin with. I would have the builder start over and make sure he uses a proper spoke prep (not Loctite) when he relaces the wheel.
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Old 11-12-04, 10:16 AM   #3
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Find a new builder. There is something fundementally wrong
with the wheel if it keeps loosenening.
If anything I would use either Spokeprep (wheelsmith),
Nipple Lube (rock n roll) or go totally oldschool and
use boiled linseed oil.

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Old 11-12-04, 10:19 AM   #4
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You can use loctite if you must. Just remove the nipple, soak it in acetone, clean the spoke threads in acetone with a cotton swab, dry, and apply nothing stronger than Loctite's Blue to the spoke threads. Immediately reinstall and true to final true condition within 20 minutes.

However, I suspect that even though your LBS guys are saying there isn't a spoke tension problem, this may in fact be the cause of the spokes loosening. Spend MORE money and buy a Park Spoke Tension gauge and use it before using Loctite. You can lend it to all your friends on the Aussie thread and maybe they'll lend you one of their Look KG486 bikes to ride.

This problem may also be caused by a poor extrusion on that specific rim, so if after properly tensioning the spokes, the problem remains, and you don't want to replace the rim, then use Loctite.
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Old 11-12-04, 10:22 AM   #5
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Thanks, all
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Old 11-12-04, 01:53 PM   #6
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Green loctite is designed for post tightening application. I've used it with good results on my son's motorcycle wheels and on the wheels for his downhill bike.
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Old 11-12-04, 02:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
If anything I would use either Spokeprep (wheelsmith),
Nipple Lube (rock n roll) or go totally oldschool and
use boiled linseed oil.

Marty
When you are tweaking your spokes there are two places you have friction - the spoke thead itself and the nipple surface that seats on the rim. Yup, I agree that Spokeprep is the right stuff for the spoke theads. And, linseed oil is really great for the rim/nipple interface because it is slippery when wet, but sets up hard when it drys out. When you go back to true the wheel later on, just put another drop of linseed oil in the rim hole and it softens the old dried out linseed oil. The whole idea is to keep the spoke workable during tuning and have it not rotate later on. Spokeprep and linseed oil do exactly that. Some people use linseed oil on the spoke threads as well, but Spokeprep is a little nicer (IMHO) as it's designed (specifically for spoke threads) to set up hard enough to resist rotating, but not so hard as to prevent adjustment with a spoke wrench. So, this solution is kind of "old school meets new school".
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Old 11-12-04, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
Green loctite is designed for post tightening application. I've used it with good results on my son's motorcycle wheels and on the wheels for his downhill bike.

Just curious ...... I assume you are talking about #290 Loctite? Have you ever used that on bike spokes and then later re-adjusted them? I ask because 290 is some pretty strong sh*t. I helped a friend remove the bottom plate on his jet ski this summer and the 5mm bolts used green/290 and they were a major b*tch to break loose. If you look on the Loctite site, they use 10mm bolts for their specification example and the break torque required for a 10mm was 30 in/lbs. Am I wrong in thinking that 290 on a bike spoke is just about permanent, unless you just a solvent later on??? Like I said, just curious.
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Old 11-12-04, 03:02 PM   #9
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Your builder may not be tensioning the spokes properly. The spokes will twist when the nipple is turned so all will appear to be fine after the build. The first time you ride the spokes will un-twist and the wheel will go out of true. Sheldon brown has a great description on turning the nipples past the proper tension then turning them back to untwist the spoke.
Enjoy
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Old 11-12-04, 04:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade168
Just curious ...... I assume you are talking about #290 Loctite? Have you ever used that on bike spokes and then later re-adjusted them? I ask because 290 is some pretty strong sh*t. I helped a friend remove the bottom plate on his jet ski this summer and the 5mm bolts used green/290 and they were a major b*tch to break loose. If you look on the Loctite site, they use 10mm bolts for their specification example and the break torque required for a 10mm was 30 in/lbs. Am I wrong in thinking that 290 on a bike spoke is just about permanent, unless you just a solvent later on??? Like I said, just curious.
Well, I don't normally use loctite on bicycle wheels and I haven't had the opportunity to work on my son's since so you might have a point.

In his case, both sets of wheels were so loose that I didn't see that there was anything to lose by trying something different. His downhill wheels, for example are Tioga Factory DH and were about 5 years old with little or no trueing but the rims were pretty badly beaten up. He likes to routinely ride off of 10' drop offs and the like so they get a pretty good test. I told him to plan on buying new rims for his next wheel rebuild so who cares if I have to cut off the spokes?

His Honda is a 450 something 4-stroke motocross bike so we're talking plenty of power. I don't like to even think about what he must be doing with that and I definitely don't share my thoughts with his mother. I just know that I could turn most of the spoke nipples with my fingers so using a little loctite on them is bound to be an improvement.
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Old 11-12-04, 04:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
In his case, both sets of wheels were so loose that I didn't see that there was anything to lose by trying something different. His downhill wheels, for example are Tioga Factory DH and were about 5 years old with little or no trueing but the rims were pretty badly beaten up. He likes to routinely ride off of 10' drop offs and the like so they get a pretty good test. I told him to plan on buying new rims for his next wheel rebuild so who cares if I have to cut off the spokes?

His Honda is a 450 something 4-stroke motocross bike so we're talking plenty of power. I don't like to even think about what he must be doing with that and I definitely don't share my thoughts with his mother. I just know that I could turn most of the spoke nipples with my fingers so using a little loctite on them is bound to be an improvement.
Just for curiosity sake, it might be interesting to try and adjust those spokes before you cut them, just to see if the nipple will turn. Loctite does make release agents and lists them on it's site. Also, a little hot air from a blow dryer can work wonders.

Yes, I can see where all the vibration and power in a motorcycle might require a serious threadlocker. Plus, you are talking about a much bigger gauge spoke and nipple, right?
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Old 11-12-04, 05:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powers2b
Your builder may not be tensioning the spokes properly. The spokes will twist when the nipple is turned so all will appear to be fine after the build. The first time you ride the spokes will un-twist and the wheel will go out of true. Sheldon brown has a great description on turning the nipples past the proper tension then turning them back to untwist the spoke.
Enjoy
This is very noticable with aero spokes !!! Another quick fix is to slightly compromise the thread on the spoke by taping it on a steel faceplate/anvil gently with a hammer this should deform the thread enough to give it more resistance to loosening .
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Old 09-06-05, 09:15 AM   #13
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I have a set of Bontrage Race wheels, the bike was used for 6 months when i got it, so i don't know what the storie is but i've never crashed it. THE SAME 2 SPOKES KEEP COMING LOSE. time and time again, they get to the point where it's like a peice of spagetti, but every other spoke on both sides of the rim stiff. I've had it trued twice now and the mechanic was saying we should do a rebuild to identify if there's a bend in the rim, or some bad(stretched) spokes that might need replacing. I was considering loctite, but maybe not? Is rebuilding a rear wheel really worth it ? Or should i just order a new aero wheel that i've kinda had my eye on?
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Old 09-06-05, 10:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyderek
. THE SAME 2 SPOKES KEEP COMING LOSE. ?
The purists say that a wheel shouldn't do this if it's built properly, but......

Try a couple of DT Pro Lock nipples
http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fus...n=nipples.bike

I think they come with a bit of Loctite already in there, or a nylon insert, or something.

Last edited by 531Aussie; 09-06-05 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 09-06-05, 12:11 PM   #15
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THE SAME 2 SPOKES KEEP COMING LOSE. ?
well... when i was just tweaking the trueness i noticed some dirt around some of the nipples and wipped the rim off, only to find CRACKS IN THE RIM!!!!! Well i guess this explains the 2 oposite spokes that kept coming lose after 1 or 2 rides (the colored nipples)

So i'm trying to phone Mike Garcia now to see if i can buy a rim that will be compatible with the spokes and hub, i might just send it to him and have him build a niobium 30 with my parts.
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Old 09-06-05, 01:16 PM   #16
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well, there you go, you've now got an excuse to buy them new aero wheels

I'd guess the crack would've contributed to the spokes going out of whack.
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Old 09-06-05, 03:24 PM   #17
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alas, nothing can be switched over, although mike was very nice to talk to, i don't have the cash for a whole new rear wheel or set of wheels i guess i'm stuck just getting a replacement rim for my local trek/bontrager dealer...
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Old 09-06-05, 03:45 PM   #18
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531, how did your wheel turn out? What did you eventually do?
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